Hi Folks,
Eley seem to be one of the few manufactures who produces .22 ammo specifically for target pistol use (namely "Pistol Standard", "Target Pistol" and "Pistol Extra" - see http://www.eley.co.uk/olympic_pistol.htm).
Can anyone tell me what it is that makes their pistol ammo different from their similary graded (and priced) .22 rifle ammo?
FD
Fortitudo_Dei-at-hotmail.com.remove.42068.0
Eley Pistol Ammo
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
Scott
Re: Eley Pistol Ammo
In theory, 'pistol ammo' should use a powder and primer combo that is optimized for complete combustion in a barrel of 6-8 inches. This gets the maximum energy from the powder and primer with minimum flash and blast, which tells you the powder is still burning as the bullet exits the barrel. Thus 'rifle ammo' should burn best in a barrel perhaps 16-20 inches long, and go 'FLASH-KABOOM' in a pistol.
In practice, I suspect that some lots of a given grade of target or match ammo are just packaged as 'pistol ammo,' even though they are using a standardized recipe.
For example, 'RWS Target' is a fine mid-priced match load that has been a staple of ISSF free, std/sport and NRA pistol shooters, plus your club and gallery riflemen for more than a decade. I've use several cases of it in that time with very good success(but I did get a case with erratic ignition a few years back, and it may have been dropped in transit when cold.) Only change over time has been dropping the nickle plating on the case, due to Euro water quality and environmental laws. A couple years ago they renamed it 'RWS Target Rifle' but I'm told by their US agent it is still the same ammo as before, same production line, same-same throughout.
As a case in point, I recently shot 6 lots of the new Eley EPS Tenex in a 20" rifle for match lot selection at 100 yards indoors, along with some older match lots and some samples of several different makes and grades of other match loads.
I found that this rifle barrel, a fluted stainless Hart, likes the slower ammo at around 1065-1070 FPS maximum. It will clean the 50m international target with no problem. Anything supersonic and it won't hold a group worth beans. Fed UM1 (fast) is all over the 9 ring at best.
RWS R50 also shoots well in the slower lots in this barrel, but RWS FP50, their no longer imported free pistol ammo that has such a soft recoil impulse and sounds so 'duh' in a 10" free pistol just 'ripped the paint and paper off the walls' out of a rifle. It produced a HUGE sonic crack and velocity well over 1100, usually around 1125-1140 FPS, and groups like s***. Gopher getters in a rifle at best. Bring really big gophers...
In theory this 'pistol ammo' should have burned all the powder in the first 6-8 inches of bullet travel, and the bullet should now be slowing down as bore friction increases and gas pressure decreases in a rifle barrel, and should be well subsonic at exit. However, my ears, instruments and targets would prove otherwise.
Scott
: Hi Folks,
: Eley seem to be one of the few manufactures who produces .22 ammo specifically for target pistol use (namely "Pistol Standard", "Target Pistol" and "Pistol Extra" - see http://www.eley.co.uk/olympic_pistol.htm).
: Can anyone tell me what it is that makes their pistol ammo different from their similary graded (and priced) .22 rifle ammo?
: FD
submoa-at-aol.com.42129.42068
In practice, I suspect that some lots of a given grade of target or match ammo are just packaged as 'pistol ammo,' even though they are using a standardized recipe.
For example, 'RWS Target' is a fine mid-priced match load that has been a staple of ISSF free, std/sport and NRA pistol shooters, plus your club and gallery riflemen for more than a decade. I've use several cases of it in that time with very good success(but I did get a case with erratic ignition a few years back, and it may have been dropped in transit when cold.) Only change over time has been dropping the nickle plating on the case, due to Euro water quality and environmental laws. A couple years ago they renamed it 'RWS Target Rifle' but I'm told by their US agent it is still the same ammo as before, same production line, same-same throughout.
As a case in point, I recently shot 6 lots of the new Eley EPS Tenex in a 20" rifle for match lot selection at 100 yards indoors, along with some older match lots and some samples of several different makes and grades of other match loads.
I found that this rifle barrel, a fluted stainless Hart, likes the slower ammo at around 1065-1070 FPS maximum. It will clean the 50m international target with no problem. Anything supersonic and it won't hold a group worth beans. Fed UM1 (fast) is all over the 9 ring at best.
RWS R50 also shoots well in the slower lots in this barrel, but RWS FP50, their no longer imported free pistol ammo that has such a soft recoil impulse and sounds so 'duh' in a 10" free pistol just 'ripped the paint and paper off the walls' out of a rifle. It produced a HUGE sonic crack and velocity well over 1100, usually around 1125-1140 FPS, and groups like s***. Gopher getters in a rifle at best. Bring really big gophers...
In theory this 'pistol ammo' should have burned all the powder in the first 6-8 inches of bullet travel, and the bullet should now be slowing down as bore friction increases and gas pressure decreases in a rifle barrel, and should be well subsonic at exit. However, my ears, instruments and targets would prove otherwise.
Scott
: Hi Folks,
: Eley seem to be one of the few manufactures who produces .22 ammo specifically for target pistol use (namely "Pistol Standard", "Target Pistol" and "Pistol Extra" - see http://www.eley.co.uk/olympic_pistol.htm).
: Can anyone tell me what it is that makes their pistol ammo different from their similary graded (and priced) .22 rifle ammo?
: FD
submoa-at-aol.com.42129.42068
-
fred
Re: Eley Pistol Ammo
: In theory, 'pistol ammo' should use a powder and primer combo that is optimized for complete combustion in a barrel of 6-8 inches. This gets the maximum energy from the powder and primer with minimum flash and blast, which tells you the powder is still burning as the bullet exits the barrel. Thus 'rifle ammo' should burn best in a barrel perhaps 16-20 inches long, and go 'FLASH-KABOOM' in a pistol.
: In practice, I suspect that some lots of a given grade of target or match ammo are just packaged as 'pistol ammo,' even though they are using a standardized recipe.
: For example, 'RWS Target' is a fine mid-priced match load that has been a staple of ISSF free, std/sport and NRA pistol shooters, plus your club and gallery riflemen for more than a decade. I've use several cases of it in that time with very good success(but I did get a case with erratic ignition a few years back, and it may have been dropped in transit when cold.) Only change over time has been dropping the nickle plating on the case, due to Euro water quality and environmental laws. A couple years ago they renamed it 'RWS Target Rifle' but I'm told by their US agent it is still the same ammo as before, same production line, same-same throughout.
: As a case in point, I recently shot 6 lots of the new Eley EPS Tenex in a 20" rifle for match lot selection at 100 yards indoors, along with some older match lots and some samples of several different makes and grades of other match loads.
: I found that this rifle barrel, a fluted stainless Hart, likes the slower ammo at around 1065-1070 FPS maximum. It will clean the 50m international target with no problem. Anything supersonic and it won't hold a group worth beans. Fed UM1 (fast) is all over the 9 ring at best.
: RWS R50 also shoots well in the slower lots in this barrel, but RWS FP50, their no longer imported free pistol ammo that has such a soft recoil impulse and sounds so 'duh' in a 10" free pistol just 'ripped the paint and paper off the walls' out of a rifle. It produced a HUGE sonic crack and velocity well over 1100, usually around 1125-1140 FPS, and groups like s***. Gopher getters in a rifle at best. Bring really big gophers...
: In theory this 'pistol ammo' should have burned all the powder in the first 6-8 inches of bullet travel, and the bullet should now be slowing down as bore friction increases and gas pressure decreases in a rifle barrel, and should be well subsonic at exit. However, my ears, instruments and targets would prove otherwise.
: Scott
This may not be true in practise, but in theory I would imagine that there could be a significant difference between "pistol ammo" made for FPs and "pistol ammo" made for semi-autos. Don Nygord has said that a FP is basically a short rifle, and when you think about it you can see that the FP ammo requirements could be very different from the semi-auto's need to cycle the slide, while not having excessive recoil. Just a further complication to the original question...
frbauer-at-msn.com.42135.42129
: In practice, I suspect that some lots of a given grade of target or match ammo are just packaged as 'pistol ammo,' even though they are using a standardized recipe.
: For example, 'RWS Target' is a fine mid-priced match load that has been a staple of ISSF free, std/sport and NRA pistol shooters, plus your club and gallery riflemen for more than a decade. I've use several cases of it in that time with very good success(but I did get a case with erratic ignition a few years back, and it may have been dropped in transit when cold.) Only change over time has been dropping the nickle plating on the case, due to Euro water quality and environmental laws. A couple years ago they renamed it 'RWS Target Rifle' but I'm told by their US agent it is still the same ammo as before, same production line, same-same throughout.
: As a case in point, I recently shot 6 lots of the new Eley EPS Tenex in a 20" rifle for match lot selection at 100 yards indoors, along with some older match lots and some samples of several different makes and grades of other match loads.
: I found that this rifle barrel, a fluted stainless Hart, likes the slower ammo at around 1065-1070 FPS maximum. It will clean the 50m international target with no problem. Anything supersonic and it won't hold a group worth beans. Fed UM1 (fast) is all over the 9 ring at best.
: RWS R50 also shoots well in the slower lots in this barrel, but RWS FP50, their no longer imported free pistol ammo that has such a soft recoil impulse and sounds so 'duh' in a 10" free pistol just 'ripped the paint and paper off the walls' out of a rifle. It produced a HUGE sonic crack and velocity well over 1100, usually around 1125-1140 FPS, and groups like s***. Gopher getters in a rifle at best. Bring really big gophers...
: In theory this 'pistol ammo' should have burned all the powder in the first 6-8 inches of bullet travel, and the bullet should now be slowing down as bore friction increases and gas pressure decreases in a rifle barrel, and should be well subsonic at exit. However, my ears, instruments and targets would prove otherwise.
: Scott
This may not be true in practise, but in theory I would imagine that there could be a significant difference between "pistol ammo" made for FPs and "pistol ammo" made for semi-autos. Don Nygord has said that a FP is basically a short rifle, and when you think about it you can see that the FP ammo requirements could be very different from the semi-auto's need to cycle the slide, while not having excessive recoil. Just a further complication to the original question...
frbauer-at-msn.com.42135.42129