Air Venturi V10 Match Pistol vs FAS 6004?

[Gwhite]

I just saw an ad for the new Air Venturi V10:

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Air_Ventu ... _Pistol/61

I'm always on the lookout for a decent beginners pistol for our club that doesn't cost a fortune. The current leader in that search has been the FAS 6004, which I know has some issues (apparently fixable), but the V10 looks to be even less expensive. The V10 basically appears to be a direct copy of the FAS, and is made in Spain. I think "Air Venturi" is Pyramyd's 'house brand', and I suspect the pistols are made by Gamo.

Has anyone played with a V10? Better still, has anyone done a direct comparison with the FAS? I'm interested in:

1) Functionality as a target pistol: this means sights that can be adjusted well for 10 meters, and a trigger that isn't too awful, combined with enough accuracy to not be a limiting factor for beginners. One review said it arrived with a 3.5 pound trigger pull. Another said it could be adjusted down to "just under a pound", which means you should be able to set it for 500 grams OK.

2) Reliability: One issue with the FAS seems to be that they replaced some of the steel in the old 604 with aluminum or zinc. I don't know if the materials in the V10 have been cheapened further, or if they maybe still use steel.

3) Ease of use: The hope would be that they would be something that kids could shoot in a junior program, going down to as young as 10 year olds. Cocking force is a concern, and apparently both have issues with how hard it is to load the pellets. There is a fix for the FAS that has been posted, and a careful choice of pellets might help.

Thanks for any insight / input.

[TenMetrePeter]

The V10 is/was also known as Gamo Compact. Cheap entry level pistol that can be shot by youngsters though compressing the air is always difficult for 11 and younger.
So in use they are very similar. But remember the V10 barrel housing is all plastic. I had one that twisted annoyingly. Trigger is nowhere nearly as good or as adjustable as the FAS. Take the plastic side off the Gamo/V10 trigger housing and you need to be a clockmaker to put it back. FAS is a peach to take apart and service. I didnt notice any change in material from 604 to 6004 apart from the piston shaft bushing went from ally to plastic but that started with the later 604s.

[Tony C.]

Haven't seen a V10 before, but from the pictures ita looks exactly like my 25 yrs old El Gamo Compact. May be its a case of re-branding under a new name, as a matter of fact, the review call it "compact" a couple of times.

From the link it seems the V10 had some improvements over the Compact, the sight looks like made of metal instead of plastic, and the trigger is adjustable which isn't on the Compact. Cocking effort will be a problem if the shooters are as young as 10,.

If V10 is a new and improved version of the Compact, I hope they fixed the problem of leakage, I've seen a number of them won't hold air after a few months of moderate use, my Compact will slowly leak air, its OK if I take the shot within a minute or 2 after cocking, but air will completely be gone after 20 or so minutes. But it should be a fairly easy fix by changing the O ring and some lubrication.

Hope this help.

[David Levene]

Trigger is nowhere nearly as good or as adjustable as the FAS.

If the V10 is the same as the Gamo Compact then that is an understatement.

The standard Compacts that I've put through equipment control have been detrimental to good shooting and, talking to some of the (young) teenage users sometime later, were the cause of them giving up pistol shooting. They were just not enjoying it because of the triggers.

I've felt a few that had allegedly been "heavily worked on". They were mediocre at best.

You get what you pay for.

[Gwhite]

Thanks for all the input. It sounds like unless it has been through a major overhaul of both design & manufacturing, I'll stick with looking into the FAS.

[slofyr]

The $30 Beeman P17 [a Chinese copy of the Weihrauch HW40 (aka Beeman P3) which borrowed much of its design from the FAS604] has a better trigger than the Gamo pistol. Blacking out the 17's fiber optics makes it a workable trainer.

[Rover]

"I'm always on the lookout for a decent beginners pistol for our club that doesn't cost a fortune."

Forget it! You'll always have crap.

Buy USED top of the line. There are plenty of great deals out there in CO2, but far fewer among the more desirable SSPs. The FWB65 series is far more competitive than many here would believe and need no expensive accessories.

[Gwhite]

As usual, Rover, you only see the world through your own tiny little viewpoint. This is NOT for an individual. They can decide if the problems of maintaining & shooting ONE older air pistol is worth the trouble, and they can learn how to maintain it. They can also decide if they want to invest in a grip that fits, because the odds of finding a used pistol with the right grip is pretty low unless you are an averaged sized right handed male shooter. An XS or XXS grip for a used high end pistol will cost half of what a FAS 6004 sells for with an ambidextrous grip.

Not that you bothered to ask before spouting off (as usual), but we are looking to purchase ten or more identical pistols for a junior program. They need to be identical both for ease of support, and so we don't have squabbles over who gets which pistol. I'm already in charge of maintaining a museum of 50 air pistols of about 10 different makes & models for the college team I help coach. There is no way the club wants to deal with the hassles of maintaining a menagerie of out of date pistols. If we could buy 10 Tau-7 Juniors for the price of the 6004, I'd do it in a heartbeat. At least those I know how to repair, and a club member is from Czechoslovakia, and can get us parts.

As someone else pointed out, if you try to convince a kid to take up shooting, you need to do it with a pistol that is fun to shoot. That means a certain level of quality, AND reliability. If it breaks, or the used pistol you bought has a large grip and they can't reach the trigger, they will get discouraged & quit. Our club already bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T's, because that was all they could afford. I've spent hours making them vaguely functional as target pistols. I know there are some kids who still found shooting them distasteful enough that they lost interest. I can't say that I blame them.

At almost $400, the FAS is probably still out of our price range, but it beats that pants off of buying IZH's, which are impossible to get parts for, and too big & heavy for small kids. As far as I know, there is nothing else out there that comes close in terms price for a junior program.

[kevinweiho]

As far as I know, there is nothing else out there that comes close in terms price for a junior program.

How about the Daisy 717 or 747?

[Rover]

" Our club already bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T's, because that was all they could afford. I've spent hours making them vaguely functional as target pistols. I know there are some kids who still found shooting them distasteful enough that they lost interest. I can't say that I blame them."

So you already bought a pile of worse than useless crap and you're telling ME I don't have a handle on things?

[Joe]

Well here comes Mr "Know it all Rover" again with his sparkling wit and words of wisdom. Just who is this loud mouth?
He has probably caused more people to not ask questions, than anyone on this site, he wades in on most every topic
whether he has anything to contribute or not. he always seems to have some snarky comment. He should seek life elsewhere.
Anyone who has made over 4300 posts, must spend all his time on the computer.
So Rover,shut the f#&* up, and keep drinking your Panther Piss Pilsner!

[Gwhite]

" Our club already bought a bunch of Crosman 2300T's, because that was all they could afford. I've spent hours making them vaguely functional as target pistols. I know there are some kids who still found shooting them distasteful enough that they lost interest. I can't say that I blame them."

So you already bought a pile of worse than useless crap and you're telling ME I don't have a handle on things?

I was not involved in the purchase decision. I recommended they apply for grants to purchase better pistols, and was ignored.

Go crawl back under your rock.

[OTD]

I shoot an LP10, own a FAS and had the Gamo 45 (Air Venturs V10). Technically there’s not much of a difference between the FAS and the Gamo. The principle is the same, but FAS/Chiappa put more thoughts into the desing of these items then the Gamo/AirVenturi did; and is technically better executed also. If there’s something to compare between the two it’s the trigger assembly, the grips and the information content of the documentation they come with. FAS is better in all three aspects, but if it’s a choice between pest and cholera. Neither one of the two is suitable for GI in a shooting team. The problem is not so much quality, but technology, or better the lack of technology.

[rmca]

Gwhite

I understand your need for low price competitive club guns.
I also understand the need for equal and maintainable equipment.
But, a second (3rd or 4th) hand top tier match pistol will always outclass by a mile any other low end new pistol like the gamo compact, fas or Tau.

I started out with a Gamo Compact, and it still holds a place in my heart, but the pistol is a piece of crap compared to a ancient FWB for example. Not to mention compared to my actual LP10.
I've also tried the other brands (tau and fas) and although they are a bit better, they are still in the crap definition of match guns.

FWB still sells parts for all their older guns, just go to their site and check the exploded diagrams plus user manuals for all their models https://www.feinwerkbau.de/en/Service+D ... d-drawings

They are by far the simplest guns to work on. Specially the old CO2 models.
They are also easily affordable and available in Europe, so trying to buy a "fleet" of ten old club guns isn't that difficult of a task. It just takes patience and time.
I'm not sure about the US market...

My point is, it's better to buy less, but good old stuff, than to buy more, new crappy guns.

My club has 12 old FWB CO2 pistols that get and workout every week, and they are real battle tanks! They last forever and require minimal maintenance.

Quality still stands long after the price has been forgotten...

Hope this helps

[Gwhite]

The going rate for a good used CO2 pistol (like a Pardini K60) is about $450 in the US. They are also quite scarce. Amassing a set of ten vaguely similar pistols with small grips would take half a decade over here, and cost more than the club can afford.

I would really like to have a good junior program at our club, but I'm already flat out with a lot of other efforts. We have people who are eager to teach kids, but they know only the basics, and nothing about match air guns, much less replacing seals & maintenance. If you throw in a mixed bag of makes & models, it will quickly devolve into a program where half the guns need work/parts before you can run a class, and the club doesn't have anyone else to deal with that. We are not trying to put together a junior team to compete. We want a program to introduce kids to air pistol shooting in a positive manner. If we get a few of them really excited, we can investigate having a smaller quantity of nicer pistols at some point.

As I have explained to the club several times, they need to investigate various grant programs and get serious about raising the amount of money it would require to do it right. The FAS 6004's would be a HUGE improvement over the Crosman's we have (heck, throwing rocks would be better...), but the 6004's clearly have their limits. If they can find the right outfits to get grant money from, we MIGHT be able to get a deal on Hammerli AP20's or something. At the moment, the lowest cost new "match" grade air pistol we could buy in quantity is the Alpha Proj, for ~ $750, but I seem to recall plenty of negative reports on those. The Hammerlis are up around $900-$950.

As it is, the club has no functioning junior program because the Crosman's are so terrible. Without grant money, even at $350 for the FAS's, it will be a tough sell.

[Rover]

Gee, Joe, thanks for your insightful contribution to the point of this thread.

In return, I would like to bestow upon you some of the premium beer you know I like....after I'm finished with it.

[Xman]

The V10 is a Gamo compact no doubt just rebranded.

My first real AP was a Gamo. It was new not used or tinkered with. I found the trigger to be be fine from my personal point of view and experience. I shot SBR and AR for 20 years prior to getting the Gamo. The rear sight had a nice adjustment feature as you could expand or narrow the notch as you liked it. No addition rear sight parts needed.

Trigger had a nice (to me anyway) angle adjustment.

I did not like the construction of the top piece as it was aluminum as I recall and the locking mechanism that secured the top piece to to lower after cocking was plastic.

I too could see that in the long run the over lever cocking and locking would/could be the weakest point of the Gamo compact. Accuracy was fine for basic shooting and at my club it was even mistaken for a .22LR pistol as I had the target at 10m and 22's were not allowed at 10m.

I later replaced it with an Izzy and have been happy with the Izzy for years now.

The goal of the OP was/is to find low cost APs to introduce YOUNG people to shooting. Those that show promise even with whatever "trigger" issues the gamo/v10 might have can advance to another pistol in due time. Parents will/might be eager to cough up $$ if the kid finds it cool to punch holes, be damned with the trigger right now. Kids dont know or wont know if the trigger is a fine/lousy instrument unless they are told. Plant the idea that the trigger is lousy and the kid and parent will treat the trigger as a reason they cant succeed. Just get them shooting something, get basic fundamentals going ( yeah trigger stuff notwithstanding) and get them shooting.

The v10 can serve as an introduction AP. You dont have to start with a 10m AP target either. You just want to get them shooting as see if they want to proceed.

Use a larger bull or use the 10m target at 5m to start.

Just get them shooting, some will keep at it, some wont, for whatever reason.

[TenMetrePeter]

The Gamo/V10 barrel housing is not alloy its plastic.
Re entry level for kids I might agree if the Gamo/V10 was still around $120 but the difference between it and the 6004 is a lot less now.
Properly adjusted and weighted the 6004 is capable of county level competition. Gamo/V10 never, even with the adjustable trigger weight.
To the OP, better to get only 5 pistols at $400 than 10 at $200.

[Rune Kanstad]

My club got a grant a few years back, and we bought Hämmerli AP20s as well as a couple of AP40s for the older beginners. The kids like the AP20s, no complaints about triggers and no need to cock them manually. The grips are small and ambidextrous, no complaints there either.