Grip Modifications?

[Mtl_Biker]

I'm relatively new to match pistols (with a Steyr EVO-10) and my medium right-hand grip seems to fit me properly. But everyone I meet seems to have modified their grips, either filing parts off or adding wood filler, to make them fit their hand better. I ask how you would know if modifications could help and they answer that with experience you'll know. SIGH

And I'm reluctant to start mucking around with my grip in fear of ruining it and maybe not even improving it.

Are there any methods you could suggest for determining if the grip is right for you? (I wish there was a softer putty-like material copy of the grip that you could hold and squeeze and then look at the putty to see if there are any high or low spots, but there doesn't seem to be.)

I've now got over 15,000 shots through my pistol and figure it's time to start looking for small tweaks/improvements I could make.

Any suggestions?

[siordian1]

I use Loctite fun-tak. You can order it on-line or pick it up at wal-mart. It will harden but not to a solid, you can still move it around if need be.

[Gwhite]

You can certainly experiment, but I wouldn't get overly cranked about it. The two important factors are:

1) Is your grip repeatable? The goal of all the features on a fitted grip is to match your hand well enough that your hold on the pistol is identical every time. This does NOT require that it be exactly molded to every nook, cranny, groove, bump etc. In fact, because your hand will change size over time, and with temperature & hydration, a perfect fit is impossible. Also, any pressure on the sides (like in your palm) due to a close fit may push the pistol around. All the critical support should be in line with the bore.

2) Does it naturally point in the right direction? Get into your shooting stance, and lift the pistol with your eyes closed. Settle into what you feel is a good shooting position, and open your eyes. Is the pistol lined up with the target? Given that you have a Steyr, you can tweak out minor errors with the screw system that others may have to adjust for with a file or putty. Vertical errors may just be a question of arm lift & muscle tension, but if it's way off, you might want to consider getting a grip with a different angle. You definitely want the side to side error to be minimal.

If the errors are more than you can take out with the screws, then you can experiment with putty. DON'T start carving until you have triple checked things. VERY small amounts of material (plus or minus) are frequently all that is required. I think a lot of putty gets applied where people have gotten too carried away with a file.

There are references on-line (Nygord's notes & others) that can help. If you think you need to remove material, add putty there until the error doubles. That will tell you how much you need to remove.

[Mtl_Biker]

You can certainly experiment, but I wouldn't get overly cranked about it. The two important factors are:

1) Is your grip repeatable? The goal of all the features on a fitted grip is to match your hand well enough that your hold on the pistol is identical every time. This does NOT require that it be exactly molded to every nook, cranny, groove, bump etc. In fact, because your hand will change size over time, and with temperature & hydration, a perfect fit is impossible. Also, any pressure on the sides (like in your palm) due to a close fit may push the pistol around. All the critical support should be in line with the bore.

2) Does it naturally point in the right direction? Get into your shooting stance, and lift the pistol with your eyes closed. Settle into what you feel is a good shooting position, and open your eyes. Is the pistol lined up with the target? Given that you have a Steyr, you can tweak out minor errors with the screw system that others may have to adjust for with a file or putty. Vertical errors may just be a question of arm lift & muscle tension, but if it's way off, you might want to consider getting a grip with a different angle. You definitely want the side to side error to be minimal.

If the errors are more than you can take out with the screws, then you can experiment with putty. DON'T start carving until you have triple checked things. VERY small amounts of material (plus or minus) are frequently all that is required. I think a lot of putty gets applied where people have gotten too carried away with a file.

There are references on-line (Nygord's notes & others) that can help. If you think you need to remove material, add putty there until the error doubles. That will tell you how much you need to remove.

Great info! Thanks very much for all those tips. I really appreciate it.

The angle of the grip, both vertical and horizontal can be adjusted to quite a degree with the screws under the grip on the EVO-10 and I think that's fairly good right now. I'm not going to start modifying my grip (yet), especially since I just found out the price for a replacement grip. I'm going to have to be VERY convinced that modifications are needed before I spring for another grip or start modifying my current one. But I sure wish there would be a good way to determine whether modifications to the grip are even needed.

Regards...

[Rover]

Don't worry about buggering up your grips; that will just inhibit you.

Besides, they make putty.

[Gwhite]

The angle of the grip, both vertical and horizontal can be adjusted to quite a degree with the screws under the grip on the EVO-10 and I think that's fairly good right now. I'm not going to start modifying my grip (yet), especially since I just found out the price for a replacement grip. I'm going to have to be VERY convinced that modifications are needed before I spring for another grip or start modifying my current one. But I sure wish there would be a good way to determine whether modifications to the grip are even needed.

Regards...

Adjust the screws so it naturally points at the target when you lift the pistol with your eyes closed. Then do that ten times, completely re-gripping the pistol each time. If it points at the target properly each time, you don't need to touch a thing.

Just remember that a repeatable grip is not JUST the hardware's responsibility. Learn to use you non-shooting hand (grabbing under the barrel is typical) to ensure that your side of the gripping process is the same every time. Until you can do that, fine grip adjustments are a waste of time & energy. Independent of how the grip is shaped, you want to try to grasp the pistol the same way every time. Don't just pick up the pistol with your shooting hand & wiggle your fingers until it feels right...

Also remember that before they had all the fancy fitted grips, lots of people shot very good scores with what would be considered a crude stick by today's standards. If you practice getting a repeatable grip enough, the fancy features become less important. If you practice aiming consistently, the fact that it doesn't naturally point at the center of the target is also not the end of the world.

[Chris]

Gwhite's point #2 was spot on. What I would do is grip the pistol while on the bench then look down range and close your eyes. Raise the pistol into position and then open your eyes and see where the sights are pointed. Do this many times starting from re-gripping the pistol the say way you did the first time. You want to see if you are consistently pointing to the same spot. If you are then you need to change something about the grip to make it so the sights line up every time.

The changes may require some wood removal. Start with a file or Dremel with rough sandpaper attachment. This is a slow process of removing/adding material and gripping and dry firing to test your work as you go. The first time I did this took me many months to get the grip perfect.

You need to be able to feel where the grip is apply more pressure in some parts and not enough pressure in other spots. You are looking for equal pressure on all parts of the grip. I would often start out with some clay to fill in spots that feel like voids or where I am getting less support than I want. Put some clay there and shoot some and add/remove as necessary. Then once you get it correct use some Quikwood. It is a 2 part epoxy like clay. You can cut off a small chunk and kneed it to uniform color and then apply to the spot you want. If you put on too much you can use a chisel or file to remove the extra. I would start small and add some small chunks each time. Once you do this enough you will figure out close to what you need the first time.

I remembering hearing about Wang Yifu would pull out a file in the middle of a match and work on his grip.

I would not concern yourself about messing up your grip. Most of my grips my hand contacts more putty than wood. It is groups that count not how good your grip looks.

[Gwhite]

<snip> You need to be able to feel where the grip is apply more pressure in some parts and not enough pressure in other spots. You are looking for equal pressure on all parts of the grip.

I have to disagree with this. You do NOT want equal pressure everywhere. You want equal pressure on the front & rear of the grip, in line with the bore. If you are applying pressure to the SIDES of the grip, you are introducing an unnecessary variable that can only do you harm. You are trying to avoid any contact that will introduce angular errors in your aiming with varying grip pressure. If you can squeeze the grip harder & see it move off to the side, you've got a problem.

You can avoid the resulting aiming errors by developing a consistent gripping pressure, but if you tense up in a match, your pistol will point off in a funny direction. This is the big fallacy of having a perfectly molded grip that fits your entire hand. If gives you WAY to many variables that can push the pistol off axis. ALL the pressure needs to be front to back, in line with the bore.

[jerber]

I'm going to give my opinion on this one
Back in early 1982 my shooting club had this Italian guy to meet with me to customize my grip on a FWB 65
Because I was a junior at the time the custom grip fitted real good compared to the regular grip
But it didn't really increase my score
What I would suggest is that you file/sand any pressure points that you feel
Just do a little at the time
Then you will know if you need to fill any gaps if it's really uncomfortable
But I wouldn't go to crazy about it
Just my 3 cents

[Chris]

<snip> You need to be able to feel where the grip is apply more pressure in some parts and not enough pressure in other spots. You are looking for equal pressure on all parts of the grip.

I have to disagree with this. You do NOT want equal pressure everywhere. You want equal pressure on the front & rear of the grip, in line with the bore. If you are applying pressure to the SIDES of the grip, you are introducing an unnecessary variable that can only do you harm. You are trying to avoid any contact that will introduce angular errors in your aiming with varying grip pressure. If you can squeeze the grip harder & see it move off to the side, you've got a problem.

You can avoid the resulting aiming errors by developing a consistent gripping pressure, but if you tense up in a match, your pistol will point off in a funny direction. This is the big fallacy of having a perfectly molded grip that fits your entire hand. If gives you WAY to many variables that can push the pistol off axis. ALL the pressure needs to be front to back, in line with the bore.

Maybe I was not explaining myself very clearly. I agree you should have a higher grip pressure front to back than other areas on the grip. Personally for me I like it that the rest of my hand has uniform contact with the grip. I do not like voids or points that generate more pressure than others. In my opinion this way ensures that my hand will grip the pistol the same way every time.

[Gwhite]

<snip>Maybe I was not explaining myself very clearly. I agree you should have a higher grip pressure front to back than other areas on the grip. Personally for me I like it that the rest of my hand has uniform contact with the grip. I do not like voids or points that generate more pressure than others. In my opinion this way ensures that my hand will grip the pistol the same way every time.

I like voids anyplace that doesn't serve a specific function. The most consistent pressure you can apply is zero. My favorite grips have very little contact in most of the palm area.

That said, I haven't bothered to attack my grips with a chainsaw to remove much offending wood. I think a "skeleton" grip would be very effective, but ugly as hell.

[massrog]

I'm going to give my opinion on this one
Back in early 1982 my shooting club had this Italian guy to meet with me to customize my grip on a FWB 65
Because I was a junior at the time the custom grip fitted real good compared to the regular grip
But it didn't really increase my score
What I would suggest is that you file/sand any pressure points that you feel
Just do a little at the time
Then you will know if you need to fill any gaps if it's really uncomfortable
But I wouldn't go to crazy about it
Just my 3 cents

As you all know I am far from an expert but I just barely relieved the edge of my palm shelf where it dug into my palm and my consistency went up. Today was the first time that I didn't shoot a target in the sixties out of 12. As I said I just rounded the edge not even a 16th of an inch off.

[Gwhite]

As you all know I am far from an expert but I just barely relieved the edge of my palm shelf where it dug into my palm and my consistency went up. Today was the first time that I didn't shoot a target in the sixties out of 12. As I said I just rounded the edge not even a 16th of an inch off.

This is one of the first modifications I have to make on a lot of grips. There is a fair amount of pressure there, and many of the palm shelves come with a pretty sharp rear corner. Even if it doesn't affect your grip repeatability & stability, a lot of them HURT, especially after 60 shots.

[Gregbenner]

I am new as well (at least to bullseye type shooting). I have several different target 22s with rather different grip angles. I have adjustable palm shelf type grips on all of them, but they are still quite a bit different (e.g. my Smith 41 vs my new to me AW93). Plus, triggers/balance, etc are different. When i shoot I like to take 3 different pistols and shoot perhaps a 100 rounds out of each.I do not currently compete at events, but wonder if shooting multiple guns is a poor approach if the goal was to compete?