I would like to collect information on air gun restrictions in different countries.
Here in Canada the limit is 500 fps muzzle velocity. There is no energy restriction. If you shoot a light pellet you could easily break the law. This may change soon but there is no official words yet.
I understand there are countries which use energy as a criterium, such as 7.5 joules in Germany, if I remember correctly. This makes more sense because energy takes into consideration both velocity and pellet mass.
Could shooters from other countries please enlighten me on this?
Thanks in advance.
info-at-precision-sports.com.41546.0
Air gun restrictions
Moderators: rexifelis, pilkguns
-
Alexey
Re: Air gun restrictions
: I would like to collect information on air gun restrictions in different countries.
: Here in Canada the limit is 500 fps muzzle velocity. There is no energy restriction. If you shoot a light pellet you could easily break the law. This may change soon but there is no official words yet.
: I understand there are countries which use energy as a criterium, such as 7.5 joules in Germany, if I remember correctly. This makes more sense because energy takes into consideration both velocity and pellet mass.
: Could shooters from other countries please enlighten me on this?
: Thanks in advance.
Dear Philip,
In Russia as of recently any 4.5 mm air gun is legal. Formerly there used to be muzzle energy restriction, In theory, muzzle energy is relevant, the only snag is, one cannot very well measure it at the police station.
Take care, Alexey
alexey931-at-list.ru.41554.41546
: Here in Canada the limit is 500 fps muzzle velocity. There is no energy restriction. If you shoot a light pellet you could easily break the law. This may change soon but there is no official words yet.
: I understand there are countries which use energy as a criterium, such as 7.5 joules in Germany, if I remember correctly. This makes more sense because energy takes into consideration both velocity and pellet mass.
: Could shooters from other countries please enlighten me on this?
: Thanks in advance.
Dear Philip,
In Russia as of recently any 4.5 mm air gun is legal. Formerly there used to be muzzle energy restriction, In theory, muzzle energy is relevant, the only snag is, one cannot very well measure it at the police station.
Take care, Alexey
alexey931-at-list.ru.41554.41546
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George Merriman
Re: Air gun restrictions
Here in NZ there is no muzzle energy/velocity restriction on air rifles or pistols. Full auto weapons are restricted, though, and a special firearms licence is required for these. The only regulation otherwise is that you have to be over 18yrs of age to buy or possess an air weapon, or must be supervised by an adult if under 18.
bearcats-at-xtra.co.nz.41556.41546
bearcats-at-xtra.co.nz.41556.41546
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Mark P.
Re: Air gun restrictions
Good grief! My LP-1P is pushing them out at around 540-550fps!
: I would like to collect information on air gun restrictions in different countries.
: Here in Canada the limit is 500 fps muzzle velocity. There is no energy restriction. If you shoot a light pellet you could easily break the law. This may change soon but there is no official words yet.
: I understand there are countries which use energy as a criterium, such as 7.5 joules in Germany, if I remember correctly. This makes more sense because energy takes into consideration both velocity and pellet mass.
: Could shooters from other countries please enlighten me on this?
: Thanks in advance.
.41559.41546
: I would like to collect information on air gun restrictions in different countries.
: Here in Canada the limit is 500 fps muzzle velocity. There is no energy restriction. If you shoot a light pellet you could easily break the law. This may change soon but there is no official words yet.
: I understand there are countries which use energy as a criterium, such as 7.5 joules in Germany, if I remember correctly. This makes more sense because energy takes into consideration both velocity and pellet mass.
: Could shooters from other countries please enlighten me on this?
: Thanks in advance.
.41559.41546
-
Graham
Great Britain
: I would like to collect information on air gun restrictions in different countries.
Air Rifle: up to 12 Ft/lb no licence required.
Air Rifle: Above 12 Ft/lb licence required.
Air Pistol: up to 6 Ft/lb.
.41584.41546
Air Rifle: up to 12 Ft/lb no licence required.
Air Rifle: Above 12 Ft/lb licence required.
Air Pistol: up to 6 Ft/lb.
.41584.41546
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scerir
Re: Air gun restrictions
<I understand there are countries which use energy as a criterium, such as 7.5 joules in Germany, if I remember correctly.>
And also in Italy now. The problem is that if you
want to buy an old air weapon, i.e. a simple FWB 65, you need a licence, because this pistol was not tested < 7.5 joules.
scerir-at-libero.it.41585.41546
And also in Italy now. The problem is that if you
want to buy an old air weapon, i.e. a simple FWB 65, you need a licence, because this pistol was not tested < 7.5 joules.
scerir-at-libero.it.41585.41546
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MDriskill
Sweden
If I remember correctly from an old magazine article, Sweden has a restriction of 200 meters/sec velocity--around 640 fps. This would not affect most match guns.
The main effect, in fact, is to hurt sales of higher-powered sporter rifles in .177 caliber! Most of these guns are, ironically, legal in the harder-hitting .22 or .25 calibers.
kyofu-at-aol.com.41594.41546
The main effect, in fact, is to hurt sales of higher-powered sporter rifles in .177 caliber! Most of these guns are, ironically, legal in the harder-hitting .22 or .25 calibers.
kyofu-at-aol.com.41594.41546
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Richard
New rules in Canada
I beleive they just very recently added an energy limit for airguns in Canada, you might want to check it out.
.41606.41546
.41606.41546
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Mark
Re: New rules in Canada
Richard - this is exactly what Philip is talking about. We've now got a 5.7 joule limit in addition to the 152.4 m/s or 500 fps limit. This restriction actually is more stringent than the previous velocity limit, primarily because the only way you can successfully hit 500 fps and stay below 5.7 joules is to shoot a very light pellet. This is in fact exactly the opposite effect from what the legislation was intended to do, ie to stop the RCMP from classifying every airgun as a firearm by shooting light pellets through it and busting the 500 fps rule.
As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
Mark.
.41627.41606
As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
Mark.
.41627.41606
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Deepinder
Re: New rules in Canada - actually for the better !
Mark -
I thought the new rules are better. Your AP is not a firearm if it is under 500 fps. If it does go over 500 fps ( with a light pellet ) then its energy should be less than 5.7 joules.
from the report I got from CSSA
" Additionally, C-10A changes the regulation of air guns for the positive. It
mandates a dual standard for measuring an airgun's power. While previously
an
airgun had to be below 500 fps to be unregulated, C-10A adds an additional
standard of 5.7 joules of energy. That is, if an airgun exceeds 500 fps AND
5.7 joules of energy, it is a firearm. This will effectively prevent the
RCMP
from firing ultra lightweight pellets in an unregulated gun and claiming it
to
be a firearm because it exceeds 500 fps. The lightweight pellet will not
generate sufficient energy to exceed both standards"
: Richard - this is exactly what Philip is talking about. We've now got a 5.7 joule limit in addition to the 152.4 m/s or 500 fps limit. This restriction actually is more stringent than the previous velocity limit, primarily because the only way you can successfully hit 500 fps and stay below 5.7 joules is to shoot a very light pellet. This is in fact exactly the opposite effect from what the legislation was intended to do, ie to stop the RCMP from classifying every airgun as a firearm by shooting light pellets through it and busting the 500 fps rule.
: As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
: This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
:
: Mark.
.41648.41627
I thought the new rules are better. Your AP is not a firearm if it is under 500 fps. If it does go over 500 fps ( with a light pellet ) then its energy should be less than 5.7 joules.
from the report I got from CSSA
" Additionally, C-10A changes the regulation of air guns for the positive. It
mandates a dual standard for measuring an airgun's power. While previously
an
airgun had to be below 500 fps to be unregulated, C-10A adds an additional
standard of 5.7 joules of energy. That is, if an airgun exceeds 500 fps AND
5.7 joules of energy, it is a firearm. This will effectively prevent the
RCMP
from firing ultra lightweight pellets in an unregulated gun and claiming it
to
be a firearm because it exceeds 500 fps. The lightweight pellet will not
generate sufficient energy to exceed both standards"
: Richard - this is exactly what Philip is talking about. We've now got a 5.7 joule limit in addition to the 152.4 m/s or 500 fps limit. This restriction actually is more stringent than the previous velocity limit, primarily because the only way you can successfully hit 500 fps and stay below 5.7 joules is to shoot a very light pellet. This is in fact exactly the opposite effect from what the legislation was intended to do, ie to stop the RCMP from classifying every airgun as a firearm by shooting light pellets through it and busting the 500 fps rule.
: As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
: This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
:
: Mark.
.41648.41627
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Philip
Not really.
Deepinder:
I wish things are as simple as what CSSA has reported. If indeed that is ALL the Canadian government is going by, it will be tolerable.
Using JSB pellets as an example ( sorry Scott, this is the data I have on hand, not trying to advertise here ), the Pistol Match pellets weigh 0.475g and will not exceed the 5.7 joules energy limit if your pistol shoots at or below 154.92 m/s. But if you use the Rifle Match pellets which weigh 0.520g, then you had better tune your gun down to 148.06 m/s in order to stay under 5.7 joules.
However, there are hidden agendas. The rosy picture painted by Bill C-10A will soon fade.
RCMP has been conducting their own investigation on competition air pistols from major European manufacturers. Somehow, they claim they have data to support the conclusion that Steyr LP10, for instance, is designed to be fired at 160 m/s. And this is the velocity they will use for classification purposes. This means when it comes to deciding whether an air pistol is to be called a restricted firearm or not, this is the criterium they will use, NOT what your LP10 will actually shoot. You can adjust it all you want and it will make no difference in their decision. They will not bother clamping your LP10 down and chrony it.
Once they apply the 160 m/s as the established and officially accepted velocity, your LP10 will most likely have exceeded the 5.7 joules limit ( it will have an energy level of 6.08 joules if you use a 0.475g pellet, or 6.66 joules if you use a 0.520g pellet, both calculated according to the official velocity of 160 m/s). And yes, it has now also exceeded the 152.4 m/s limit, too, because that's how it was designed by the manufacturer, pal.
The only way to get around it is if you use a pellet of 0.445g or lighter, which will bring the energy level down to 5.7 joules or under.
In the equation to determine energy level the Canadian government has already turned two ( velocity and energy level ) of the three variables in to constants, the only variable left is pellet weight.
You think you have to exceed BOTH velocity AND energy limits before your LP10 will be classified as a firearm? Not to worry, the RCMP has made it easier and done one for you - they have pre-determined your LP10's velocity for you.
Germany has a 7.5 joules limit, and airguns are stamped with an "F" inside a pentagon to show that they are not considered firearms. If Canada adopts the pentagon F as our standard, it will be much more reasonable.
Setting the energy limit at 5.7 joules is way too low for any practical purposes. Almost all competition grade air pistol and air rifles using matche pellets will most likely exceed the limit. It is the quickest way to turn all competition air guns into firearms in one sweep, and a ton of red tape thorwn into our laps.
The RCMP is working hard on this and they will soon announce their findings.
Some shooters at the national level have been in conversation with RCMP officers regarding this, so far there is not much positive feedback. Let's just hope that someone there will listen to us and make some sensible changes.
Now, can anyone tell me which match pellets weigh 0.445g or less? I want to stock up on those....
info-at-precision-sports.com.41656.41648
I wish things are as simple as what CSSA has reported. If indeed that is ALL the Canadian government is going by, it will be tolerable.
Using JSB pellets as an example ( sorry Scott, this is the data I have on hand, not trying to advertise here ), the Pistol Match pellets weigh 0.475g and will not exceed the 5.7 joules energy limit if your pistol shoots at or below 154.92 m/s. But if you use the Rifle Match pellets which weigh 0.520g, then you had better tune your gun down to 148.06 m/s in order to stay under 5.7 joules.
However, there are hidden agendas. The rosy picture painted by Bill C-10A will soon fade.
RCMP has been conducting their own investigation on competition air pistols from major European manufacturers. Somehow, they claim they have data to support the conclusion that Steyr LP10, for instance, is designed to be fired at 160 m/s. And this is the velocity they will use for classification purposes. This means when it comes to deciding whether an air pistol is to be called a restricted firearm or not, this is the criterium they will use, NOT what your LP10 will actually shoot. You can adjust it all you want and it will make no difference in their decision. They will not bother clamping your LP10 down and chrony it.
Once they apply the 160 m/s as the established and officially accepted velocity, your LP10 will most likely have exceeded the 5.7 joules limit ( it will have an energy level of 6.08 joules if you use a 0.475g pellet, or 6.66 joules if you use a 0.520g pellet, both calculated according to the official velocity of 160 m/s). And yes, it has now also exceeded the 152.4 m/s limit, too, because that's how it was designed by the manufacturer, pal.
The only way to get around it is if you use a pellet of 0.445g or lighter, which will bring the energy level down to 5.7 joules or under.
In the equation to determine energy level the Canadian government has already turned two ( velocity and energy level ) of the three variables in to constants, the only variable left is pellet weight.
You think you have to exceed BOTH velocity AND energy limits before your LP10 will be classified as a firearm? Not to worry, the RCMP has made it easier and done one for you - they have pre-determined your LP10's velocity for you.
Germany has a 7.5 joules limit, and airguns are stamped with an "F" inside a pentagon to show that they are not considered firearms. If Canada adopts the pentagon F as our standard, it will be much more reasonable.
Setting the energy limit at 5.7 joules is way too low for any practical purposes. Almost all competition grade air pistol and air rifles using matche pellets will most likely exceed the limit. It is the quickest way to turn all competition air guns into firearms in one sweep, and a ton of red tape thorwn into our laps.
The RCMP is working hard on this and they will soon announce their findings.
Some shooters at the national level have been in conversation with RCMP officers regarding this, so far there is not much positive feedback. Let's just hope that someone there will listen to us and make some sensible changes.
Now, can anyone tell me which match pellets weigh 0.445g or less? I want to stock up on those....
info-at-precision-sports.com.41656.41648
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Bill Poole
REALLY big airguns Re: Air gun restrictions
Here in the US there are no federal laws regulating air guns of ANY size. (nor muzzle-loaders) So some experimenters build really big airguns, like .50 cal, 12mm. but those are still tiny compared to artillery.
There was a TV show on the other day about a game called Pumpkin Chunkin.
Basically a contest to see who can shoot a ~10lb, 5kg vegetable the furthest, like thousands of feet/ > 1km!
Some of these machines look like huge artillery pieces.
I found one website: http://2ndamendment.tripod.com/album.htm
there are others.
ME must be as much as 10000 times higher than the numbers u guys are quoting (although velocity is about the same!)
Not for me.... but it sure was fun to watch on TV!
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.41682.41546
There was a TV show on the other day about a game called Pumpkin Chunkin.
Basically a contest to see who can shoot a ~10lb, 5kg vegetable the furthest, like thousands of feet/ > 1km!
Some of these machines look like huge artillery pieces.
I found one website: http://2ndamendment.tripod.com/album.htm
there are others.
ME must be as much as 10000 times higher than the numbers u guys are quoting (although velocity is about the same!)
Not for me.... but it sure was fun to watch on TV!
Poole
http://arizona.rifleshooting.com/
bill-at-poole.com.41682.41546
-
Richard
Re: New rules in Canada
: Richard - this is exactly what Philip is talking about. We've now got a 5.7 joule limit in addition to the 152.4 m/s or 500 fps limit. This restriction actually is more stringent than the previous velocity limit, primarily because the only way you can successfully hit 500 fps and stay below 5.7 joules is to shoot a very light pellet. This is in fact exactly the opposite effect from what the legislation was intended to do, ie to stop the RCMP from classifying every airgun as a firearm by shooting light pellets through it and busting the 500 fps rule.
: As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
: This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
:
: Mark.
.41705.41627
: As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
: This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
:
: Mark.
.41705.41627
-
Richard
Re: New rules in Canada
: Richard - this is exactly what Philip is talking about. We've now got a 5.7 joule limit in addition to the 152.4 m/s or 500 fps limit. This restriction actually is more stringent than the previous velocity limit, primarily because the only way you can successfully hit 500 fps and stay below 5.7 joules is to shoot a very light pellet. This is in fact exactly the opposite effect from what the legislation was intended to do, ie to stop the RCMP from classifying every airgun as a firearm by shooting light pellets through it and busting the 500 fps rule.
: As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
: This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
:
: Mark.
.41706.41627
: As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
: This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
:
: Mark.
.41706.41627
-
Richard
Re: New rules in Canada
I don't know who you're trying to explain this to but, i didn't ask. I just informed Philip that there is or will soon be an energy level included in the law but the CFC still lists firearms as having a muzzle velocity greater than 152.4 m/s.
Deepinder below has it right and this really is a good thing, because most of the pistol could shoot above 500 fps right now and could be considered firearms just like most match rifles. If they test it with a light pellet the velocity will be greater than 500 fps but the enegry imparted by the light pellet will be less than 5.7 joules which makes it not a firearm, if they test it with a heavy pellet the enery maybe greater than 5.7 joules but the velocity will be below 500fps which agian makes it not a firearm.
: Richard - this is exactly what Philip is talking about. We've now got a 5.7 joule limit in addition to the 152.4 m/s or 500 fps limit. This restriction actually is more stringent than the previous velocity limit, primarily because the only way you can successfully hit 500 fps and stay below 5.7 joules is to shoot a very light pellet. This is in fact exactly the opposite effect from what the legislation was intended to do, ie to stop the RCMP from classifying every airgun as a firearm by shooting light pellets through it and busting the 500 fps rule. the version of the law that I saw used the word "or" not "and".
: As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
: This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
:
: Mark.
.41707.41627
Deepinder below has it right and this really is a good thing, because most of the pistol could shoot above 500 fps right now and could be considered firearms just like most match rifles. If they test it with a light pellet the velocity will be greater than 500 fps but the enegry imparted by the light pellet will be less than 5.7 joules which makes it not a firearm, if they test it with a heavy pellet the enery maybe greater than 5.7 joules but the velocity will be below 500fps which agian makes it not a firearm.
: Richard - this is exactly what Philip is talking about. We've now got a 5.7 joule limit in addition to the 152.4 m/s or 500 fps limit. This restriction actually is more stringent than the previous velocity limit, primarily because the only way you can successfully hit 500 fps and stay below 5.7 joules is to shoot a very light pellet. This is in fact exactly the opposite effect from what the legislation was intended to do, ie to stop the RCMP from classifying every airgun as a firearm by shooting light pellets through it and busting the 500 fps rule. the version of the law that I saw used the word "or" not "and".
: As a result, most if not all competition airguns will likely become "firearms" in Canada. That means your Steyrs will become "restricted firearms". Just think what this entails... You need an ATT to take them to the range. But you can't shoot them at the normal air range because it's not approved for restricted firearms. The Grand Prix can't happen because it's not at an approved restricted range. At a personal level, thousands of people have airguns, but many don't have a firearms license (PAL). As a result, by posessing an airgun that was purchased legally as a "non-firearm", this new legislation will automatically and retroactively render them criminals subject to summary conviction.
: This whole situation stinks, and is a clear indicator of the Liberal's desire to take all firearms from the hands of Canadians. We need to press them to, at best, accept the European standard for airgun classification (that F symbol in the pentagon on the side of your pistols), or at worst, to create a new catagory of firearms called competition airguns that are exempt from the 500 fps / 5.7 joule restriction, or at least a higher limit. If this doesnt happen then we will have the most restrictive airgun legislation in the world (yeah, that'll make Canada a safer place, for sure - NOT!).
:
: Mark.
.41707.41627
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Richard
Re: Not really.
Why not just go get your restricted PAL then it really doesn't matter what they do.
: Deepinder:
: I wish things are as simple as what CSSA has reported. If indeed that is ALL the Canadian government is going by, it will be tolerable.
: Using JSB pellets as an example ( sorry Scott, this is the data I have on hand, not trying to advertise here ), the Pistol Match pellets weigh 0.475g and will not exceed the 5.7 joules energy limit if your pistol shoots at or below 154.92 m/s. But if you use the Rifle Match pellets which weigh 0.520g, then you had better tune your gun down to 148.06 m/s in order to stay under 5.7 joules.
: However, there are hidden agendas. The rosy picture painted by Bill C-10A will soon fade.
: RCMP has been conducting their own investigation on competition air pistols from major European manufacturers. Somehow, they claim they have data to support the conclusion that Steyr LP10, for instance, is designed to be fired at 160 m/s. And this is the velocity they will use for classification purposes. This means when it comes to deciding whether an air pistol is to be called a restricted firearm or not, this is the criterium they will use, NOT what your LP10 will actually shoot. You can adjust it all you want and it will make no difference in their decision. They will not bother clamping your LP10 down and chrony it.
: Once they apply the 160 m/s as the established and officially accepted velocity, your LP10 will most likely have exceeded the 5.7 joules limit ( it will have an energy level of 6.08 joules if you use a 0.475g pellet, or 6.66 joules if you use a 0.520g pellet, both calculated according to the official velocity of 160 m/s). And yes, it has now also exceeded the 152.4 m/s limit, too, because that's how it was designed by the manufacturer, pal.
: The only way to get around it is if you use a pellet of 0.445g or lighter, which will bring the energy level down to 5.7 joules or under.
: In the equation to determine energy level the Canadian government has already turned two ( velocity and energy level ) of the three variables in to constants, the only variable left is pellet weight.
: You think you have to exceed BOTH velocity AND energy limits before your LP10 will be classified as a firearm? Not to worry, the RCMP has made it easier and done one for you - they have pre-determined your LP10's velocity for you.
: Germany has a 7.5 joules limit, and airguns are stamped with an "F" inside a pentagon to show that they are not considered firearms. If Canada adopts the pentagon F as our standard, it will be much more reasonable.
: Setting the energy limit at 5.7 joules is way too low for any practical purposes. Almost all competition grade air pistol and air rifles using matche pellets will most likely exceed the limit. It is the quickest way to turn all competition air guns into firearms in one sweep, and a ton of red tape thorwn into our laps.
: The RCMP is working hard on this and they will soon announce their findings.
: Some shooters at the national level have been in conversation with RCMP officers regarding this, so far there is not much positive feedback. Let's just hope that someone there will listen to us and make some sensible changes.
: Now, can anyone tell me which match pellets weigh 0.445g or less? I want to stock up on those....
.41708.41656
: Deepinder:
: I wish things are as simple as what CSSA has reported. If indeed that is ALL the Canadian government is going by, it will be tolerable.
: Using JSB pellets as an example ( sorry Scott, this is the data I have on hand, not trying to advertise here ), the Pistol Match pellets weigh 0.475g and will not exceed the 5.7 joules energy limit if your pistol shoots at or below 154.92 m/s. But if you use the Rifle Match pellets which weigh 0.520g, then you had better tune your gun down to 148.06 m/s in order to stay under 5.7 joules.
: However, there are hidden agendas. The rosy picture painted by Bill C-10A will soon fade.
: RCMP has been conducting their own investigation on competition air pistols from major European manufacturers. Somehow, they claim they have data to support the conclusion that Steyr LP10, for instance, is designed to be fired at 160 m/s. And this is the velocity they will use for classification purposes. This means when it comes to deciding whether an air pistol is to be called a restricted firearm or not, this is the criterium they will use, NOT what your LP10 will actually shoot. You can adjust it all you want and it will make no difference in their decision. They will not bother clamping your LP10 down and chrony it.
: Once they apply the 160 m/s as the established and officially accepted velocity, your LP10 will most likely have exceeded the 5.7 joules limit ( it will have an energy level of 6.08 joules if you use a 0.475g pellet, or 6.66 joules if you use a 0.520g pellet, both calculated according to the official velocity of 160 m/s). And yes, it has now also exceeded the 152.4 m/s limit, too, because that's how it was designed by the manufacturer, pal.
: The only way to get around it is if you use a pellet of 0.445g or lighter, which will bring the energy level down to 5.7 joules or under.
: In the equation to determine energy level the Canadian government has already turned two ( velocity and energy level ) of the three variables in to constants, the only variable left is pellet weight.
: You think you have to exceed BOTH velocity AND energy limits before your LP10 will be classified as a firearm? Not to worry, the RCMP has made it easier and done one for you - they have pre-determined your LP10's velocity for you.
: Germany has a 7.5 joules limit, and airguns are stamped with an "F" inside a pentagon to show that they are not considered firearms. If Canada adopts the pentagon F as our standard, it will be much more reasonable.
: Setting the energy limit at 5.7 joules is way too low for any practical purposes. Almost all competition grade air pistol and air rifles using matche pellets will most likely exceed the limit. It is the quickest way to turn all competition air guns into firearms in one sweep, and a ton of red tape thorwn into our laps.
: The RCMP is working hard on this and they will soon announce their findings.
: Some shooters at the national level have been in conversation with RCMP officers regarding this, so far there is not much positive feedback. Let's just hope that someone there will listen to us and make some sensible changes.
: Now, can anyone tell me which match pellets weigh 0.445g or less? I want to stock up on those....
.41708.41656
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Paul
Re: Not really.
: Why not just go get your restricted PAL then it really doesn't matter what they do.
Because it is illegal to discharge a firearm in most municipalities. This means that firing the air pistol in your basement is subject to 4 years in jail.
It also means that you may only transport it to an from an approved range.
.41734.41708
Because it is illegal to discharge a firearm in most municipalities. This means that firing the air pistol in your basement is subject to 4 years in jail.
It also means that you may only transport it to an from an approved range.
.41734.41708
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Richard
Re: Not really.
Whatever.
: : Why not just go get your restricted PAL then it really doesn't matter what they do.
: Because it is illegal to discharge a firearm in most municipalities. This means that firing the air pistol in your basement is subject to 4 years in jail.
: It also means that you may only transport it to an from an approved range.
.41736.41734
: : Why not just go get your restricted PAL then it really doesn't matter what they do.
: Because it is illegal to discharge a firearm in most municipalities. This means that firing the air pistol in your basement is subject to 4 years in jail.
: It also means that you may only transport it to an from an approved range.
.41736.41734
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Graham
Re: Great Britain
In addition to those rules about power limits, there is a new law going through at the moment to prohibit anyone under 17 from transporting an airgun in a public place - so even if you own an airgun, you need to be supervised getting it to and from the range.
Land of the Free? Not England!
.41815.41584
Land of the Free? Not England!
.41815.41584
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Michael Andersson
Re: Sweden
: If I remember correctly from an old magazine article, Sweden has a restriction of 200 meters/sec velocity--around 640 fps. This would not affect most match guns.
: The main effect, in fact, is to hurt sales of higher-powered sporter rifles in .177 caliber! Most of these guns are, ironically, legal in the harder-hitting .22 or .25 calibers.
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I must fill in with some information about the restriction i air arms in Sweden..
There is no restriction of velocity. But there is a limit in how much energy the bullet may have. For air arms ( Spring, CO2 ,PCP etc) the limit is 10J (joule) for single shot weapons and only 3J for semi or full auto air arms..
The limit of 200m/s comes from this 10J limit. According to this the .22 and .25 velocity limits is much lower.
If an air weapon has higher bullet energy. License is required..
/michael
.42107.41594
: The main effect, in fact, is to hurt sales of higher-powered sporter rifles in .177 caliber! Most of these guns are, ironically, legal in the harder-hitting .22 or .25 calibers.
---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
I must fill in with some information about the restriction i air arms in Sweden..
There is no restriction of velocity. But there is a limit in how much energy the bullet may have. For air arms ( Spring, CO2 ,PCP etc) the limit is 10J (joule) for single shot weapons and only 3J for semi or full auto air arms..
The limit of 200m/s comes from this 10J limit. According to this the .22 and .25 velocity limits is much lower.
If an air weapon has higher bullet energy. License is required..
/michael
.42107.41594