Help picking smallbore for small shooter

[robruger1]

My daughter is 5'3" 115 pounds. She's 15 years old and her doctor doubts she'll grow anymore, any would be minimal. Her mom is 5'4" and seems to take after her physically. She has been shooting an old 1813 Super Match with 690mm barrel. Her sling scores are solid, but Offhand kills her score. She struggles greatly under the weight. At JO equipment check wit sights, bloop tube, and palm rest, it weighed 6.465 Kg. I'm finally in a position to buy her a smallbore of her own. She is a very good standing air shooter taking 2nd J2 at JO's and in 3P air just won the American Legion National Championship while setting 2 national records with her finals score of 104.7. She needs a accurate enough rifle to match her talent while also weighing and having the right balance that her small frame can handle. I was looking at the 2013 500mm barrel, but have read that the accuracy tends to not be up to snuff and is heavier than I expected for a short barrel. I looked at the KK500, but its also heavy and has a 690mm barrel, even though set further back, is it enough? I looked at the 1913, but it doesn't come with a barrel shorter than 660mm. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Tim S]

I'm not surprised she struggles with an 1813.

The 2013 500mm may not be much better than the 1813, although the barrel is 19cm shorter, which brings the point of balance back to the shooter, it's the same 24mm diameter as the 1813, so the weight is only about the same as the 660mm x 22mm 1907 barrel that many women use. The 2013 action itself is also heavier than the 1813. The 2013 unique feature is the facility to easily remove and replace the barrel with only an allen key and a headspace gauge, so an under-performing factory barrel can be swapped.

I would not write off the KK500 so quickly. The standard barrel length is 690mm, but according to the Walther website you can chose a 650mm barrel or a lightweight 650mm barrel instead. Alternatively, the Anschutz 54.30 has a 66cm barrel set 3cm further into the action than the 1813. The 54.30 barrel is also about 300g lighter than the 1813. The Walther is the more advanced design than the 54.30, but either would be easier to hold and load than an 1813 due to the shorter butt/overall length and the shorter bolt (3cm for the 54.30 and about 2in for the KK500).

Alternatively have a shorter/lighter barrel fitted to the 1813 (or shorten/rechamber the original if it's good enough) and swap the stock for more modern design that is shorter at the back and lighter, like the 1914 or 1918 Precise.

[oldrifleman]

My daughter is shooting an Alutec KK300 with the light weight barrel. She is 13, 5' 3" and about 140lb. It is set at the shortest LOP 12.25 but it fits her perfectly. I believe you can get the KK500 set up the same way.

[bruce]

Olympian Jasmine Ser of Singapore is a smidge over 5' (155cm) and about 105lbs (48kg) in weight.
She's used a variety of stocks and barrels over the last few years, but last I saw was using a Bleiker "Light" stock. I don't know if that one's still available, but Bleiker do make a "Lady" stock which, according to the blurb, can be mated to a light weight barrel which brings the rifle weight down to around 5kg.

[tstamey]

My daughter is 12 (about to be 13) and is 5'4" 120lbs and she shoots a FWB 2700 Light. It gets a little heavy in standing but she handles it pretty well. My research showed it to be the smallest and lightest SB (never looked at Bleiker because of price).

[joel]

I had an 1813 and it was way too big for me. I sold it and bought a Walther kk300 Anatomic light and it fits me much better. I would recommend that you check one of those out as they are being sold on sale at a few places. Great price for a fantastic rifle.

Joel

[pdeal]

roburger1 where are you? I have a rifle that I put together for my son when he was small. It is a silhouette barreled action in a 2012 wood stock. First the 2012 stock, the old one, has a very nice short length of pull. The silhouette barreled action has a shorter barrel than the '07 barrels. I put a bloop tube on it to get the needed sight radius. One of the best rifles I have seen for a small shooter. I don't have any use for this gun anymore if it interests you.

[abrasivereshaping]

I second the FWB 2700 Light. My son is a smaller structured shooter and this rifle has fit him very well.

[ShootWithStyle]

My KK500 with 690mm barrel, next to KK500 with 650mm light barrel. Barrel is shorter with a smaller diameter. The whole system is significantly lighter than mine. Currently, I know of only 3 people in the USA with the lightweight version of the KK500.

[robruger1]

My KK500 with 690mm barrel, next to KK500 with 650mm light barrel. Barrel is shorter with a smaller diameter. The whole system is significantly lighter than mine. Currently, I know of only 3 people in the USA with the lightweight version of the KK500.

My daughter will be the next. Just past quality control at Walther and on it's way. Thanks for the advise, folks. I think this will be a good match for her.

[illinoisshooter12]

Whatever you decide, remember you can always add weight but you cannot take it off. Including, you can add weight to different parts of the rifle or shift it. I bought our son a 2013 500mm when he was younger. Now that he has grown and is stronger, he has added a weight block on the fore-end stock, which he shifts back a bit for offhand. Just get whatever rifle feels best for her, then do not be shy about making weight adjustments over time as she grows and looks to improve.

[Bob Smalser]

What we most like about the KK300 is its better balance and shorter bolt throw because the barrel is set back further due to the shorter bolt. That equates to a smaller kid being able to handle 12 pounds worth of rifle in all three positions.



Walthers also come with an excellent trigger, 20-click sights and doodads plus tool kit, complete with case.



What we don't like about them is the limited range of stock adjustment. Add a serious set of sight risers for a shooter with a long neck and face and you'll have to modify the cheekpiece accordingly by adding a block beneath it for more elevation. Dunno if the KK500 is the same, but worth a check.

[Maxicooper]

My KK500 with 690mm barrel, next to KK500 with 650mm light barrel. Barrel is shorter with a smaller diameter. The whole system is significantly lighter than mine. Currently, I know of only 3 people in the USA with the lightweight version of the KK500.

.
My daughter will be the next. Just past quality control at Walther and on it's way. Thanks for the advise, folks. I think this will be a good match for her.

What is the weight of the KK500 with light weight barrel? Thank you

[gwsb]

Ginny Thrasher just won the Gold in Rio in women's air at 5'1 119 so size is no problem in smallbore and air. I would suggest a new barrel on the 1813 action with a precise stock. An international gunsmith suggested to me a full length barrel instead of the 500 mm with a 1907 diameter which is about 1 lb less than a 1913.

[ZD]

I'll throw in my two cents on this,

I happen to shoot a 1907 in a precise stock, and purchased this over the 1913 a few years ago since I wanted a light barrel for my 5-7, 135 pound frame. However, if I could pick a rifle now, I would go for a short barrel, such as the 500mm barrel from the Anschutz. At the end of the day, I simply feel that they balance better. I do not like muzzle weight in offhand, and after seeing the number of back problems on my team, including my own, I really believe in their merit. Yes, some of the Anschutz 2013's with short barrels weigh as much as my 1907, perhaps due to a larger diameter barrel. Let's say for the sake of argument you have two Anschutz rifles that each weigh 13 pounds; one with a full length barrel and one with a short weight barrel and a bloop tube. Based on my experience, the rifle with the shorter barrel feels lighter, as the weight of the rifle is further back on the rifle. I can also attest to this from re balancing my Anschutz 2002 one too many times; it felt heavier with the barrel weights on vs. added weight in the back. I cannot comment on a loss in accuracy with a short barrel; however there are top shooters who use a short barrel to great success; I posted a picture of Jamie Gray below, who won Gold for the U.S. in the London Olympics. Note the short barrel and extra long bloop tube. You can have a barrel cut down and re-crowned if you have a gunsmith who knows what they are doing. Again, more knowledgeable people than me can comment on this, but I did see teammates benefit from this, albeit at 50ft. From conversations I have had with shooters far better than me, some believe that a shorter barrel allows the round to exit the barrel sooner, and thus lead to a better shot in offhand. I can offer no concrete evidence for this, but it is food for thought, as accuracy in this game is as much science as it is mystery. I care more about how a rifle fits a shooter. Also, bear in mind that if you intend to add a bloop tube to a rifle, it will make it feel muzzle heavy. I added a 10" bloop tube to my rifle my last year shooting in college. I loved the extra long sight plane in prone and kneeling, however my balance was not great in offhand, and I would have preferred a short barrel and extra long bloop tube. One final note; I did have an opportunity to test a Walther KK500 with a light barrel back in March of this year. The barrel was skinnier and shorter than the barrel on my Anschutz 1907, and the rifle definitely was lighter than my Anschutz. Plus I could load the rifle in prone without taking my elbow off the ground. If I had the money, I would buy this rifle today. I loved it.

-Zach
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[markgrabowski]

My KK500 with 690mm barrel, next to KK500 with 650mm light barrel. Barrel is shorter with a smaller diameter. The whole system is significantly lighter than mine. Currently, I know of only 3 people in the USA with the lightweight version of the KK500.

My daughter will be the next. Just past quality control at Walther and on it's way. Thanks for the advise, folks. I think this will be a good match for her.

May I ask who you purchased the KK500 Light from?

[robruger1]

Elite Shooters Supply of Montana