Shoulder strap on three positions

[Tom-quebec]

hi. i have a question about the three position regulations for shooting jacket. i place my buttons on my jacket to have the best support in standing position. the problem is that for prone shooting, if i tight the shoulder strap to take back the material that make a fold, my buttons become to tight for respect the overlap regulation.
this shoulder strap is it free of regulation or do you sacrifice support in standing position to be able to tight the shoulder strap in prone position and be always able to respect the overlap regulation with the shoulder strap tighten?
i have asked this question at some peoples and issf official in my country and nobody gave me a real answer.
Thank you
Tommy

[David Levene]

There is no rule saying that adjusting the shoulder strap gives an exemption from the overlap requirements, so it doesn't.

[Tom-quebec]

this is my interpretation and for this reason, to keep best support in standing shooting, i don't use this shoulder strap during prone shooting. i ask you this question because a guys tell me that we can pass the overlap test with this strap loose and just tighten it in prone shooting to take back the fold. in other word, the overlap test is passed with the shoulder strap loose and we can tight it without chang the result of the overlap test. the rules is not precise about it and i try to find the good interpretation

[jhmartin]

Just a note ... at USAS Nationals and other of our 3-P events, if you get pulled for a test you are not allowed to change ANYTHING. You are are allowed to unbutton your jacket & pants to walk to the test station, but that's about it.

[Martin H]

Standing is the last position in 3P. So if you get a random gear check you will have the straps loose after the standing phase and you will pass. For the prone phase, you can still tighten the straps up and then loosen them for the standing.
Remember you are not allowed to adjust anything on your equipment after you are selected for the random equipment control test and before you are tested.

However if you also shoot the prone only event then you can't do your straps up as you will not pass a random equipment check. So for the prone only event you will need to have your straps loose enough so your jacket overlap will pass at equipment control.
Martin

[Tom-quebec]

thank you everybody for your answers. in some, i will continue to don't tight my shoulder strap. i shoot the three position event and the prone only event and a think that to keep the same feeling in all event i will keep my shoulder strap loose everytime. so i like your interpretation for the three positions event. it's real that the standing position is the last and for this reason, we have no probleme for the random equipment test

Thank you
Tommy

[PCU]

Forget that could pass random equipment check since it's done after standing position. People should want to abide by the rules in all positions & not try to see what they can get away with - call it integrity.

[Tom-quebec]

i send an email directly to issf to ask this question. this is her answer:
Dear Mr. Lapointe,

We thank you for your mail and I hope I can clarify your question ride now:

Any check up of the overlapping device must be done with open straps, and on this way your overlapping will be measured as original position, it means in standing position, in prone of course you must strap the straps, otherwise you have too much loose material and therefore you can adjust, but when a post competition check is coming up, your straps must be opened, and this is the original position when it was been measured.

Hope that clear up all questions.


With best regards

Willi Grill
ISSF Technical Director

And m'y question:

hi.

i have a question about the regulation interpretation for rifle shooter. i asked this question at some issf officials in my country but nobody can give me a good, or acceptable, answer.

my question is about the shoulder straps on the shooting jacket. presently i placed my buttons on my jacket to respect the overlap regulation with the strap loose and if i tighten it for prone shooting, i don't pass the overlap test.

i shoot all rifle disciplines and to keep the best support in standing position, i prefer keep my buttons in the place that don't permit to pass the overlap test with the strap tighten and i shoot the prone position for three position, and prone only, with this strap loose. in my regulation interpretation, i can not tight this strap if i can not respect the overlap test, but about some other shooter with who i talk, we can tight this strap after pass the overlap test and if we need to pass the random test after the shooting event, we can loose this strap to pass the overlap test. in other word, about this guys, the overlap test need to be pass with the strap loose and after the rule give us the possibility to take back the material fold that was formed in prone positions at the buttplate shoulder side.

i hope that you understand my question and i should be happy to have the real and good interpretation of the regulation about this point to close the debate that i live presently in my cuntry

thank you

[WesternGrizzly]

The way I read the answer from the ISSF is as follows:
When the buttons are checked the straps must be loose/undone. You can shoot the match with the straps wherever you want them, but in the event of a post equipment control check, the straps must be undone.
That's how I read it.

From my personal experience I have had it both ways. I have had my buttons checked with and without the straps tight, and I pass with both. I BELIEVE (going from memory) that I have also been allowed to undo my straps for a post equipment control check.

My suggestion? Just pass with the straps in any position that you might shoot in.
Matt

[David Levene]

I have just spoken to a friend of mine, a highly experienced and respected rifle judge, who agrees with Willi.

I stand corrected. You're never too old (and grumpy) to learn something new.

[Martin H]

Now I am confused, does Willi's email only relate to 3P?
Or Prone too?
I assume that as you shoot Prone with the shoulder straps done up then you have to pass the Overlap check with the straps done up too. I have assumed since the start of 2013 that Prone contestants had to be tested with the the straps done up, that's when the sentence in the ISSF Rules about being to undo the shoulder straps for Equipment Control was removed. And that's how all the gear checks I have been through since then have been conducted.
But Willi's email implies something different.

I can't find anything about this in the ISSF Rulebook. This whole matter needs better clarification, either as an ISSF rule, or as an "Amendment and Interpretation" so people can read and understand it. It's not good just having an email from Willi saying that's how it is done. It needs to be in black and white when everyone can see it.
As the ISSF Rules are about to change at the start of 2017 perhaps this area should be addressed?
Martin