Upcoming new sport pistols

[CamelNL]

Are there any new upcoming sport pistols? In the last few years i didnt see realy new models on the market. All the models wich are currently avaliable are practicly the same models as 3 - 4 years ago.

[TB]

The new FAS 6007 should be available from March this year.

[David Levene]

The new FAS 6007 should be available from March this year.

If it's much different from the FAS 607 then I'll be surprised.

The 607 was released approximately 20 years ago and based on a design about 20 years older than that, the IGI/FAS 602.

[PFribley]

Smith just came out with one. Called the Victory. Looks like a nice pistol. Just handled one. Looooong trigger pull.

[Gwhite]

I hope they did a better job than with the 22A. Several customers (victims) of that pistol have had nothing but trouble with them. I know a couple beginning shooters who bought them, sent them back to the factory a couple times & gave up. If you look at the Victory, it has a relatively small ejection port. I bet it's a jammomatic.

[william]

It almost looks like they detail stripped a Ruger 22/45 and a Browning Buckmark, tossed everything in a paper sack and assembled the Victory from whichever random parts they happened to grab.

[jerber]

Just watched the videos and at that price,the Ruger MKIII will be out of business!
If it perform like they said

[Fortitudo Dei]

With the interest (and Olympic success) of ISSF pistol shooting in China I have long hoped that we would see a new entry-level inexpensive .22 target pistol emerge from that country. Alas I've been waiting ten years to no avail.

There was this venture (Google Translated link which hopefully remains static) which emerged with prototypes before the Beijing Olympics but nothing came of it.
Actually you wouldn't even need a totally new design as I'm sure there would be a sizable market for something like a swept-up Margolin (the design of which I'm sure would now be out of copyright) with a few added bells and whistles e.g. an adjustable trigger and a barrel weight. The DongFeng pistol was essentially just this and Chen Ying took Gold in the 25m at the 2008 Olympics with one so they can't be too bad at all. Make it <$500 retail and they would be on to a winner EXCEPT for the weird on again / off again import ban of sporting arms from China into the United States. The obvious manufacturer for such an item would be Norinco but unless the import ban is relaxed it isn't going to happen.

[Crashtacular]

Honestly I think the 22a is a great starter gun. I bought one as my first gun about four years ago and aside from a few break in issues it has been great. Accuracy is just as good as a model 41. With a few basic tweaks it can work just as well as a model 41. A lighter trigger return spring and eliminate the binding on the trigger connector/slide release and you can have a 2.5 pound trigger. There is a small amount of creep still, but that just needs the sear engagement lessened(mine has about .040 and will be shortened a hair within the next week or two). I feel like the new victory will just be a way of introducing a new gun without a different market to the 22a. The major downfalls out of the box of a 22a is the trigger and the grips. The victory still looks to have the same crappy grips(from a one handed bullseye view). And they do not make any mention about the trigger other than the over travel adjustment. I feel like over travel is the least of the concerns about a trigger. A crisp and clean breaking trigger with a reasonable weight is more important than over travel. I would bet that if they added a better trigger(or mention it in the ad if it is already good) to that thing, such as one similar to the model 41, it would outsell any other 22lr handgun. Of course it could also lower sales on the model 41 if the victory trigger was equal. With that whole rant over with, I bet that it would make a great steel shooting gun with the fiber optic sights and a more natural mag release button compared to the 22a. I don't like the fact that you need to unscrew the screw that holds the barrel/slide on. Everytime you use a tool in a screw, it gets worn and will eventually get to a point that it is unusable. Basically any owner will have to keep and eye on the screw and replace it accordingly. Not to mention the extra time required to disassemble/reassemble, which could be an issue during competition. Especially steel shooting where the gun is exposed to all sorts of weather and dirt. I think smith and Wesson is a great company that really does try to make a great product, of course they will have a few hiccups such as a small percentage of 22a owners. But their customer service is also very good and even if this new gun has some growing pains, I'm sure that they will do their best to make things right with their customers.

[Gwhite]

Just because they demo'd one at the SHOT Show doesn't mean it will be reliable in full production, with a range of ammo. The S&W of today is NOT the S&W of old. They have been riding on their reputation for a LONG time.

Even just manufacturing a proven design is a problem for them. The Model 41 was designed back when they still did a lot of hand fitting and even then, was notoriously fussy about ammo. I worked with 15 of them teaching pistol classes in the 1990's, and we had a lot of issues, even after shipping them back & forth to S&W. My club bought 5 Model 41's two years ago for their beginner classes, and had a LOT of trouble getting them to work. Even back in 1980, I bought one and sold it after a couple months when it became apparent it would only cycle properly with high velocity ammo. I've since learned a lot about how to get them working, but who needs the aggravation for a 60 year old design?

I've pretty much given up on recommending any S&W products, but especially their .22's. The 41 is WAY over priced. You can get a Benelli MP95 for a lot less money.

[Fortitudo Dei]

The 41 is WAY over priced. You can get a Benelli MP95 for a lot less money.

If you think the S&W Model 41 is expensive in the United States, by the time it reaches these shores its pricing is a complete farce. On several occasions I've steered new shooters away from buying Model 41's who were attracted to it because of its "traditional" appearance but I managed to smack some sense into them.
Here a Model 41 costs about the same as a Pardini SP!

[Cricman]

With the interest (and Olympic success) of ISSF pistol shooting in China I have long hoped that we would see a new entry-level inexpensive .22 target pistol emerge from that country. Alas I've been waiting ten years to no avail.

There was this venture (Google Translated link which hopefully remains static) which emerged with prototypes before the Beijing Olympics but nothing came of it.
Actually you wouldn't even need a totally new design as I'm sure there would be a sizable market for something like a swept-up Margolin (the design of which I'm sure would now be out of copyright) with a few added bells and whistles e.g. an adjustable trigger and a barrel weight. The DongFeng pistol was essentially just this and Chen Ying took Gold in the 25m at the 2008 Olympics with one so they can't be too bad at all. Make it <$500 retail and they would be on to a winner EXCEPT for the weird on again / off again import ban of sporting arms from China into the United States. The obvious manufacturer for such an item would be Norinco but unless the import ban is relaxed it isn't going to happen.

I guess the Google translation was a little off and mistook the Chinese word for "copied" as "developed" under the picture of the CM84 COPY that they just "developed"! LOL


cricman

[Alexander]

With the interest (and Olympic success) of ISSF pistol shooting in China I have long hoped that we would see a new entry-level inexpensive .22 target pistol emerge from that country. Alas I've been waiting ten years to no avail.
The DongFeng pistol was essentially just this and Chen Ying took Gold in the 25m at the 2008 Olympics with one so they can't be too bad at all. Make it <$500 retail and they would be on to a winner EXCEPT for the weird on again / off again import ban of sporting arms from China into the United States. The obvious manufacturer for such an item would be Norinco but unless the import ban is relaxed it isn't going to happen.

1. I am shooting it.

2. It is top level, not entry level.

3. The actual manufacturer is Chang Feng Machinery, on behalf of Emei Firearms.

4. It is very closely related (ahem... cough) to the Pardini SP. They are twins, but the jury is still out whether they are monozygotic or dizygotic.

5. It is very ammunition tolerant, and extremely stable during shot develpment and in fast series (standard pistol and rapid fire).

Alexander

[Leon]

With the interest (and Olympic success) of ISSF pistol shooting in China I have long hoped that we would see a new entry-level inexpensive .22 target pistol emerge from that country. Alas I've been waiting ten years to no avail.
The DongFeng pistol was essentially just this and Chen Ying took Gold in the 25m at the 2008 Olympics with one so they can't be too bad at all. Make it <$500 retail and they would be on to a winner EXCEPT for the weird on again / off again import ban of sporting arms from China into the United States. The obvious manufacturer for such an item would be Norinco but unless the import ban is relaxed it isn't going to happen.

1. I am shooting it.

2. It is top level, not entry level.

3. The actual manufacturer is Chang Feng Machinery, on behalf of Emei Firearms.

4. It is very closely related (ahem... cough) to the Pardini SP. They are twins, but the jury is still out whether they are monozygotic or dizygotic.

5. It is very ammunition tolerant, and extremely stable during shot develpment and in fast series (standard pistol and rapid fire).

Very interesting. Do you have any pictures of this rare & elusive beast you can pots for us?

Alexander

[Fortitudo Dei]

With the interest (and Olympic success) of ISSF pistol shooting in China I have long hoped that we would see a new entry-level inexpensive .22 target pistol emerge from that country. Alas I've been waiting ten years to no avail.
The DongFeng pistol was essentially just this and Chen Ying took Gold in the 25m at the 2008 Olympics with one so they can't be too bad at all. Make it <$500 retail and they would be on to a winner EXCEPT for the weird on again / off again import ban of sporting arms from China into the United States. The obvious manufacturer for such an item would be Norinco but unless the import ban is relaxed it isn't going to happen.

1. I am shooting it.

2. It is top level, not entry level.

3. The actual manufacturer is Chang Feng Machinery, on behalf of Emei Firearms.

4. It is very closely related (ahem... cough) to the Pardini SP. They are twins, but the jury is still out whether they are monozygotic or dizygotic.

5. It is very ammunition tolerant, and extremely stable during shot develpment and in fast series (standard pistol and rapid fire).

Alexander

Thanks Alexander; there might have been some confusion regarding my interest in seeing something similar to Chen Ying's Dongfeng 5 (or the Dongfeng 5 itself) coming back into production in China vs a new high-end Chinese pistol but that aside; what you say is very interesting.

I'd be very interested in hearing how you acquired your example of the Emei sport pistol and also how much it cost.

Emei have a (temperamental) website with the item in question shown though the distributers page is blank. I wonder if the pistol is being held back for domestic consumption only (thus avoiding potential patent violation claims from the likes of Pardini for the 25m pistol and Morini for the Emei 50m pistol). Still; it would be great to see these more widely distributed.

http://www.emfirearms.com/production/6/ ... 2/205.html

http://www.emfirearms.com/production/6/ ... 2/208.html

The Dongfeng was made by the Qinghua Tool Factory but I suspect that production ended in the 1980s with Chinese gunsmiths keeping them going for their top shooters for as long as was practically possible. Here's Li Duihong taking Gold at the Atlanta 1996 Olympics with a Dongfeng

[j-team]

... I wonder if the pistol is being held back for domestic consumption only ...

Like they will not sell the "double circle" .22 ammo (like we used to be able to get in NZL) outside China now?

[SamEEE]

From a post from Igor circa 2009: http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=22699





Looks kind of like a IZH-35M/AW-93/Khr-31. Looks very agricultural, perhaps a run of less than 20?

[Alexander]

Like they will not sell the "double circle" .22 ammo (like we used to be able to get in NZL) outside China now?

Am actually now pre-negotiating with their sales manager about an import to Europe.
There are two factories for .22 ammunition (under the brand icons of "Double Ring" in Chongqing, and "Triangle" in Mudanjiang), and both have all quality levels. Their top levels have never been exported so far.

Alexander