Shooting score has plateaued – Help!

[solarvision]

I am in bad need of some coaching. Here’s the deal…

Bought my first air pistol – a Daisy 747 - in September. The bug bit and I purchased a good, used Steyr LP10 in October. The Steyr is such a joy to shoot, truly a beautiful pistol.

I’ve really worked on my technique – have done lots of reading on this forum and others, and feel like I know what to do. I use a consistent stance, grip and breath control, along with a low, six o’clock aim point. And I was progressing OK until about three weeks ago, when my scores leveled off at around 270 for 30 shots.

Some bad habits have surfaced – mainly sneaking glances at the target instead of focusing on the front sight during follow through. So I decided to quit worrying about points for a while and instead, have been dry firing followed by live fire at blank, target backs. Doing this, I’m able to achieve a smooth trigger squeeze and stable sight picture. Yesterday, I put 16 shots about the size of a quarter in the center of a target back. When I turned it over, all but 3 holes were in the 9 or 10 rings.

So, I dusted off my hands, set up new targets with fronts facing out, shot three strings of 10 each and scored… 270. This experience is not an anomaly. The day before I shot the same – nice tight group on the target back, then loosey-goosey when shooting for score (268 for 30 shots).

I know that good scores will only come the old fashioned way. And I’m willing to work and be patient. But I feel like I’m stuck in a rut – that I’ve been infected with a case of Targetphobia.

Any help or suggestions appreciated!

[les greevy]

Buy and read George Leonard's book Mastery.
Good stuff about learning jumps and plateaus.
You have to learn to love the plateaus because you will spend a lot of time on them.

[solarvision]

Thanks Les - sage advice. I ordered the book.

[Rover]

You haven't had time to reach a plateau. Keep practicing.

[solarvision]

Rover - you are right, of course. I will keep practicing.

But you know, when you are a newbie to serious target shooting like me, practice can be tricky. Effective practice requires lots of self awareness. Lacking that, one is susceptible to "practicing" the same mistakes over and over. Somewhere, perhaps on this forum, I ran across the expression - Perfect Practice Makes Perfect. I believe that to be so true.

Concepts like grip pressures parallel to the barrel, trigger squeeze straight back, keeping a perfect sight picture while accepting arc of movement - are all well and good. But - speaking for myself - sometimes it all hits the fan while shooting for score.

OK... back to work.

[Reinhamre]

When you have shot 10 000 pellets then you might know if you are on a "plateau".
I am shooting 1000/week and, I think it is a bit early to say, the result goes up and dawn from day to day, it is just natural. From 550 to 570, as I have past 71 I suppose a "plateau" is better than a slope.

[NosfyBe]

+1 Rover

When talking about shooting 3 weeks is nothing. If you started shooting airpistol in September it's already nice you can keep the 270. Don't forget an airpistol match is 60 shots, so try to build up to that.

Find a trainer that can help you with all your questions, but also have an external look on your posture, grip etc.
And when learning new techniques or correcting your errors your 'scores' will go down. But correcting will help you to shoot better in the long run.

[Ed Hall]

Sometimes a plateau is an indication that you have reached the level your current shot process can reach. You may need to change something you hold dear in that process to move further.

Right now, you probably need to work on the mental side. If 270 is your "expected" score, (because you perceive you are stuck there), and is your "comfort zone," it will take an attitude shift to break through. Otherwise, your emotional connection to that level will keep you there. The book referenced earlier by Les should help you in this endeavor.

[missfire]

Some bad habits have surfaced – mainly sneaking glances at the target instead of focusing on the front sight during follow through. So I decided to quit worrying about points for a while and instead, have been dry firing followed by live fire at blank, target backs. Doing this, I’m able to achieve a smooth trigger squeeze and stable sight picture. Yesterday, I put 16 shots about the size of a quarter in the center of a target back. When I turned it over, all but 3 holes were in the 9 or 10 rings.

At least you can troubleshoot and know where the bad habits are....

[JD Mahan]

Two things/thoughts that helped me at about the same stage you are:

You were reminded that a match is 60 shots, not 30. That's true, but what helped me most was when the late Don Nygord told me that it is really 60 one shot matches. Put all your effort into making THIS shot as perfect as possible. This was in response to my telling him how in my most recent match (this was in the early 90s) I was rolling along at well above my usual average, and how I only needed to average 85 on my last 20 shots for a personal best. He knew, before I told him, what had happened; I broke my personal best, but only by 1 point, where it should have been much more.

Subconciously, I was telling myself I could relax, I had achieved what I needed. But way less than what I could have. His suggestion hit me at just the right time, and has really stuck with me, and helped.

A less zen inspired, but also helpful suggestion, is to shoot the training targets. I found the verticle strip and the triangle (inverted ) to be the most helpful.

Hope this helps.

[yana]

Change yr training. Add new things. For instance:
Physical training/fitness > many forget this part
Add a laser and have a look what yr shot buildup looks like
Use more training cards (vertical line, horizontal line, etc)
Use fun cards for a change. Dont mind the scores. Have fun and focus on technique
Mental training.
Dont focus on scores. If you focus on scores you dont focus on the shooting itself.
Find a good trainer to help you.

How often do you train?

[Gwhite]

If you think you are looking at the target, there are a couple things you can try:

1) shoot on the back of a target & see if your groups shrink

2) put an orange chalk mark on the back of the sight so you have something new & different to focus on. Don't cover the whole sight. You want an irregular mark with some character & features. The last one I put on a student's pistol looked like Florida...

If you are using a six o'clock or sub-six hold, the most common result of looking at the target is high shots. The pistol will naturally tend to drift up when you lose focus on sight alignment.

Although some poor shots are just the result of a poorly timed wobble, most of them are the consquence of a correctable error on the shooters part. The vast majority of errors can be diagnosed by the shot location. See:

http://users.rcn.com/gwhite/DIAGNOSE.PDF

[NosfyBe]

Although some poor shots are just the result of a poorly timed wobble, most of them are the consquence of a correctable error on the shooters part. The vast majority of errors can be diagnosed by the shot location. See:

http://users.rcn.com/gwhite/DIAGNOSE.PDF

I like it! Nice one.

[solarvision]

Thanks to all for the feedback and suggestions.

For now, I've quit quit worrying about shooting for score (practice), focusing instead on sight alignment and trigger squeeze while shooting and dry firing on blank target backs (training). So far, I believe my groups have tightened a bit, which is encouraging. I don't intend to keep score again until I'm able to shoot a consistently tight group.

It is amazing how complex "Point at the target, squeeze the trigger" can be when you're working to become a serious shooter. I'm reminded of a similar maxim when I began my career in photography - " Choose a subject, take the picture." Accomplished image making is way more complicated than that!

You know, it seems that one of the most important aptitudes for achieving consistent accuracy is that one simply likes to shoot. Given that, the journey to rewarding scores - all the time, all the practice, thousands of pellets and endless patience - remains enjoyable.

[dronning]

The biggest help for me on improving scores was the development of a repeatable shot process. The book "With Winning In Mind" by Lanny Bassham (Olympic Gold Medal - Rifle) really drove the point that a solid shot process will allow the sub-conscious mind to take the shot. Since the conscious mind can only focus on one thing it should be the shot process. The shot kind of breaks by itself when the process is right. If the process isn't right then abort - that's the hard part! Keep a Performance Journal as per the book.

Develop a shot process and a training plan. (I'm training for both Bullseye and Air Pistol)
I work on my hold, grip and trigger control 5-6 days a week, always using my shot process! I dry fire for 30 min. every day (this is with my bullseye pistols). For AP on even days I'll dry fire for 5-10 min. then I group shoot (back side of target), 7 or 8 10 shot groups. On odd days I'll dry fire for 5-10 min. then I will shoot on a target at least 80 shots. Always more than 60 to build stamina. I just started doing cardio 30 min. 3-4 days week. Yoga has been highly suggested but I'm not there yet.

As I refined my shot process my scores would jumped a few points.
When I started using the shot process and developed a training plan I went from just under 500 to 520's then to 530's - I was there for a while and now I'm consistently above 545 with some targets in the 560's. My goals are not around scores but the time I commit to my training my focus right now is cardio. The scores seem to be a result of the training.

Take notes on what you did to get that 10 and repeat it. Your focus should be on what you are doing right. A mistake we all make when starting out is to trying "fix" something. This means you are putting mental energy in the wrong place.

- Dave

[Rover]

Photography

It's composition and lighting. With those you can make a turd look good.

A friend won a major competition with a beautifully printed shot of a basket of corn.

[gwsb]

September?? Of what year?

Here is what is needed to become a champion shooter.
1. Shoot so much you wear out about 3 top level pistols.
2. Physical training, especially the legs and trunk.
3. Read everything you can find on sports psychology and not just about shooting.
4. Develop a mental training program. Maybe with the help of people like Lanny Bassham. You can actually spend a weekend with him for only about $3,500.
5. Go to as many high level matches as you can and pester the crap out of the top shooters.
6. Spend all your disposable income on shooting.

It is a scientific fact that it takes about 10,000 hours to master a skill. Maybe get back to us in about 2020.

[dulcmr-man]

OK, I guess I'm ready to expose my ignorance in the hope that I can actually improve my scores. Literally EVERYONE here talks about "shot process" but no one EVER talks specifically about what this involves. I've tried to develop a process, but have no idea if I'm even close or not. Does the shot process involve a number of step-by-step physical movements (stance, breathing, presentation, mental imaging, etc.) to prepare for the shot? Or...? If someone would simply post each and every step of their shot process, with reasons for the necessity of each step, it would be a big help.

I've done a fair bit of internet reading and run across this term frequently but no one every precisely defines exactly what the shot process includes. Have I not read the correct book yet? With all the great shooters on this website, I'm sure that someone can provide SPECIFIC advice to help newbies like me to get better.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dennis

[kle]

OK, I guess I'm ready to expose my ignorance in the hope that I can actually improve my scores. Literally EVERYONE here talks about "shot process" but no one EVER talks specifically about what this involves. I've tried to develop a process, but have no idea if I'm even close or not. Does the shot process involve a number of step-by-step physical movements (stance, breathing, presentation, mental imaging, etc.) to prepare for the shot? Or...? If someone would simply post each and every step of their shot process, with reasons for the necessity of each step, it would be a big help.

I've done a fair bit of internet reading and run across this term frequently but no one every precisely defines exactly what the shot process includes. Have I not read the correct book yet? With all the great shooters on this website, I'm sure that someone can provide SPECIFIC advice to help newbies like me to get better.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dennis

the "shot process" is different for everyone, but in a nutshell it's the steps taken by a shooter - physically, mentally, whatever - to produce "good" shots (for the varying definitions of "good"). For me it probably includes things like "align feet such-and-such inches/centimeters apart, pointed in so-and-so angles relative to hips" and "inhale as arm is raised to target, sights aligning as they come up through the target, pause above the black, slowly exhale while taking up 1st stage of trigger, hold breath and settle into aiming area, begin pressure on 2nd stage of trigger" and "consider last shot while loading chamber with cartridge/pellet, internalize the result and then discard the emotion - positive or negative - that it produced upon closing the action and setting up for the current shot". Things like that.

I'll admit that I haven't written down my own shot process, but I do have one that I've practiced so often that it is pretty ingrained. For me it generally starts with aligning my feet and torso and arm in a very specific way in relation to the target. It includes where my eye focuses before I start to raise my arm. It includes where my sights end up on the initial lift, and where they settle when I'm "going for" the shot. It includes when I start to put pressure on the triggers' stages. It includes grip pressure -- and relaxation. It includes probably a hundred other things that I do, consciously or subconsciously, before taking the shot (or maybe it's a lot simpler than I'm imagining, since I don't have it written down). I have different shot processes depending on the event/stage/discipline/equipment (NRA Bullseye vs. ISSF Air Pistol, NRA High Power rifle vs. CMP .22 Distinguished EIC, slowfire vs. timed-fire vs. rapid-fire, S&W Model 41 vs. 1911 vs. IZH-46M, etc.).

I might be off from other peoples' definition of "shot process", but I have a feeling that I'm close. At the very end of this article by Brian Zins, Zins mentions "shot process" briefly as:

shot process—the things you do every time before pulling the trigger

What your shot process ends up being, detailed or not, written down or simply ingrained in muscle memory, will probably be unique to you. It will probably change as you discover new things you need to do - or things you no longer need to do - to shoot well, or as your definition of "shooting well" changes (for some, hitting the paper at all might be "shooting well"; for others, it might be shooting at least a 9).

[Gwhite]

OK, I guess I'm ready to expose my ignorance in the hope that I can actually improve my scores. Literally EVERYONE here talks about "shot process" but no one EVER talks specifically about what this involves. I've tried to develop a process, but have no idea if I'm even close or not. Does the shot process involve a number of step-by-step physical movements (stance, breathing, presentation, mental imaging, etc.) to prepare for the shot? Or...? If someone would simply post each and every step of their shot process, with reasons for the necessity of each step, it would be a big help.

I've done a fair bit of internet reading and run across this term frequently but no one every precisely defines exactly what the shot process includes. Have I not read the correct book yet? With all the great shooters on this website, I'm sure that someone can provide SPECIFIC advice to help newbies like me to get better.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dennis

The first place I heard about "shot process" was in a Brian Zins clinic (highly recommended). He has a couple pages on his web site that should help:

http://www.brianzins.com/2010/03/27/ant ... y-does-it/

http://www.brianzins.com/2010/03/28/ant ... n-part-ii/