Pardini HP 32, ammo talk

[oldcaster]

Dipnet,
I think it is quite possible that your loads with the lead bullets are too hot. Try to get right at 790 to 800 and see if it doesn't improve a bit. Your titewad load needs to be closer to 1.1 - 1.2 and with Titegroup my best has been 1.5 with the lead. I haven't tried any handloads with jacketed because I would have to change my process since my brass is too expanded for them.

[Dipnet]

Oldcaster,
I note that Dave Wilson is getting excellent results with VV N310, but I realize he is casting his own bullets and has more control over their dimensions (as do you). But you raise a good point: Titewad should be further explored. I tried the 1.2 gr load and got incredibly consistent results (sd=4.0!), but flyers opened the group. I've never seen variance that consistent. Should retry with new base for Ransom Rest.

With my Pardini, I use one red dot for both calibers (sight is zeroed with 22lr) and with 32s running about 850fps, I have to raise the sight 8 clicks at 25 and 10 clicks at 50 yards. I'll try slowing those bullets down to see what accuracy I get. However, I suspect I would have obtained better groups had it been February, when daylight temps are ca 70 and humidity between 30 and 40%. Certainly the shooter wouldn't have been raining sweat. Cheers, dipnet

[pistol champ]

Dipnet,
I get better accuracy with the T&B bullets when I shoot them between 750'/sec and 775'/sec. I've been using TiteWad as it gives me a smaller velocity spread at these speeds. I use VV N-310 when I'm over 950'/sec with the XTP bullet. Dave Wilson does not have access to TiteWad powder up where he lives. Dave's bullets are also very consistent.

[jmdavis]

The word is that Alex of Pardini USA shot an 873-36x with the 32acp Pardini HP today with iron sights at Camp Perry. First place Expert and 13th overall in center fire.

[fc60]

Greetings All,

I loaded some more of the ammo I tested previously to see if it would repeat. Sadly, it did not. I fired five targets of ten rounds at 50 yards and while they all stayed inside the 10-ring, there were no duplicates of the X-rings groups I previously fired.

Being an experimenter, I applied a taper crimp to 20 of the above cartridges. That is, I loaded 70 rounds total in one sitting and went back and crimped 20 of them. The remaining 50 had no crimp at all.

Attached are the two test targets fired at 50 yards via a mechanical fixture. Again, I will be back at the test facility to see if I can duplicate my results. Oddly, the target marked "culls" shot very well. I think they are "culls" as the bullet moved forward during the crimping operation. Lesson learned? Write things down.

Edit.... Putting away the empty boxes, I noticed that the 50 rounds were sized with a Carbide sizer making the brass 0.334" OD. The remaining 20 rounds I used a sizer to form the brass to 0.333" OD. Now I remember why the bullets were not holding uniform length.

Looking at the chronograph data, the extreme spread showed some improvement. However, remember this is only a ten round sampling. When I test again, I will compare 30 non crimped versus 30 crimped to observe any changes.

With all my 32 ACP testing, I have noticed gas blow back when I fire the cartridge. With jacketed ammo, all this leaves is a sooty residue on the bolt face. The swaged bullets I am testing are lubricated with Lee Liquid Alox. While the barrel shows little Lead fouling, the blow back leaves a sticky residue from the Alox. Something to keep in mind with swaged or cast bullets using soft lube. i.e. more cleaning may be necessary.

Cheers,

Dave

[ghillieman]

I use 1.5 titewad for the 32 wadcutter. It has a burn rate similar to N310 and works well.

[pistol champ]

What velocity is 1.5 of TW giving you?

[fc60]

Greetings All,

I tested 50 rounds of 32 ACP Saturday with good results.

Distance is 50 yards
Barrel is a Pardini 32 ACP mounted in a machined fixture.
Bullets are swaged from reject cast bullets lubed with Lee Liquid Alox. Diameter is 0.3143". Alloy is 20:1 (Lead:Tin)
Brass is all R-P, 0.670" long.
Taper crimp is 0.325" measured at the mouth
Overall length is 0.885".
Primers are Winchester Small Pistol (WSP)
Powder is VV N-310

I recently ordered an Accurate Mold #31-065H that will produce 0.314" bullets. When it arrives, I will allocate time to test bullets cast of LinoType and 20:1 alloy.

Cheers,

Dave

[Dipnet]

Oldcaster,
I used the 1.2gr Titewad load (OAL 0.980, crimp 0.332) for last Sunday's match and shot an 850 in centerfire. I didn't have time to chronograph the load, but I tested accuracy using a home-made rest and shot two groups less than 2 inches at 50 yards (OK, 1.8 and 1.9). This translated to shots hitting where I called them during the match.

Thanks for the advice. dipnet

[ghillieman]

What velocity is 1.5 of TW giving you?

I have not had a chance to chrono yet, but it seems to work very well.

[fc60]

Greetings,

My recent 32 ACP testing session was conducted using Bullseye powder to try and reduce the Extreme Spread and improve the Standard Deviation. So far it looks promising.

The groups were not as good as the 1.60 grain of VV N-310; but, the Average Velocity is lower. When time allows, I may try increasing the Bullseye charge from 1.90 to 2.00 grains to see what happens.

Currently, I am out of bullets and need to start casting again. However, my other machine shop projects are taking precedence.

Testing conditions....

Pardini 32 ACP barrel mounted in a machine fixture.
Distance is 50 yards.
Home swaged 64 grain bullets lubed with Lee Liquid Alox.
Bullet alloy is 20:1 Lead:Tin
Bullet diameter is 0.3143"
Ammunition assembled on a Star Reloading machine.

Cheers,

Dave

[Murph]

My opinion is that the sweet spot in velocity is about 850-870 fps, with 860 being the goal? With a 2.0 charge of bullseye, I suspect Velocity to be close to that area. Looking forward to seeing those as well. I have some bullseye and will try that for my next group of 32 cartridges.

[gwpotte]

Dave (fc60):
Am I reading your posts correctly that you are using a .325 inch taper crimp?

.325 seems small when you consider the bullet diameter is .314" and the wall thickness of the brass is about .01" (my R P brass measures about .01).
.314 plus .02 (2 X .01) equals .334.

I am using the T&B SWC bullet which must be shaped just a little bit different than yours. It is 62gr instead of 64gr and my overall length is .855" instead of .885"

My results have been good but not as good as yours, but I am using sandbags on a bench and a non magnified red dot sight.. My load is close to yours but with a .334" crimp. My load is as follows:
R P brass .670" in length
T&B 62gr SWC lead bullet .314"
.855" overall length
.334" crimp
.332" Lee sizing die (.03" oversized)
.313" expander die (going to try .314" next)
1.5 gr VV N310 powder (plan to try 1.6 after seeing your results)
Primers are Winchester Small Pistol

Thanks for the good work and information

George

[fc60]

Greetings,

I use a 0.325" taper crimp on my 32 S&W Long ammunition.

When I started testing the 32 ACP, I used no crimp and may go back to no crimp in the future.

I swaged some rejected cast bullets and coated them with Lee Liquid Alox. The Alox works well with minimal Lead fouling in the barrel. The problem I ran into was the lube is so slick, the bullets were telescoping out of the cases after seating. The air pressure inside the case was enough the push the bullet back out.

Now, when I load the swaged bullet, I check each one prior to crimping with a micrometer. Once I verify the correct overall length, I quickly place the round back in press and crimp before it moves back out.

With the cast bullets I have been testing, either LinoType or 20-1 alloy, the bullets seem to hold position with no crimp.

I have been in contact with other 32 ACP testers and they try to use a minimal crimp and are getting good results at 50 yards.

Loading the 32 ACP for consistent 50 yard accuracy has been most challenging.

A humorous sidenote, I do not own a 32 ACP. I only have a barrel.

Cheers,

Dave

[fc60]

Greetings,

My recent test session was to find out if increasing the charge of Bullseye would improve my grouping. The results were good; but, I am not sure the added recoil is worth the effort.

The targets used home swaged bullets, again. What I do is "squash" my reject cast bullets into a more useable shape and so far it works well. A future project is to machine a mould to cast slugs in order to produce a better bullet. Squashing a bullet with an existing grease groove is not the best way.

I did obtain some Hodgdon TiteWad and I will post my best effort in a separate message.

Cheers,

Dave

[jbzeus]

Hello all. Been a couple of months since any updates to this thread. I finally have my .32acp set up but it's cold here now so my 50 yd testing is on hold for a few months.

Wondering how others are doing with T&B or your own cast bullets. Any "revelations"? Any successes to share from your summer shooting?

[fc60]

Greetings,

Yes, it is cold where I am as well. I just received new barrel material for my "tight groove" 32 ACP project. Since Hornady XTP bullets are 0.311", I thought it would be interesting to try a 0.311" barrel.

I have done other custom 32 ACP barrels in 0.311 for shooters and they shot well. They supplied the material and I believe it was a Krieger blank of 0.311" and ten twist.

Cheers,

Dave

[oldcaster]

I would think that the smaller diameter barrel might be better in all regards because when shooting .314 bullets the brass has to be swaged a lot to accept lead .314 bullets. Long term, I think that it will cause problems with brass splitting and I think it might be the case that the smaller size has a better chance of being accurate because when expanding brass a lot, they never expand equally with one side expanded and the other being flat. This has to make things off center and while it apparently isn't a big deal, it has to matter.

[UtahDave]

Hmm...very interesting. Why not just leave the brass at the as-fired size so it doesn't end up being sized down, blown up and on and on. If that doesn't work then maybe a custom sizing die is in order, say a few thou larger in diameter.

I'm really struggling to get the T&B bullets to fit into the cases and I need a larger diameter expander which I shall make tonight.

BTW- I'm really impressed with the new micrometer powder die from UniqueTek. That device is really accurate and easy to set up. It took a bit of fiddling to get it to not be too tight but that was expected.

Dave

[fc60]

Greetings,

I recently finished a set of custom sizing dies for a fellow 32 ACP shooter. Six dies that increase in size by 0.001".

What he does now is select the die that sizes the case "just right" for the bullet diameter and brand of case.

Actually, I do the same thing myself. For 32 S&W Long WadCutter, I use only Lapua or R-P cases. I select a sizing die to suit the 0.314" or 0.312" bullets I load. My expander plug measures 0.308" and does not touch the inside of the case. It only flares the case.

Why do all this? The less you work the brass the longer it will last.

Cheers,

Dave