Pardini HP 32, ammo talk

[oldcaster]

I used Ransom rests a lot and found that is was next to impossible to put a revolver in one wrong but a 1911 was much more difficult to get right. I feel the same way about the Pardini. I just don't think that you can have a piece of rubber that is square hold correctly in its container.

When I first started using a RR, I borrowed one from the range I belonged to and they had a set up where the RR was on a steel plate connected by bolts to another steel plate that was on a pipe that went into the concrete. It was a disaster. After I bought my own and read the instructions, I put a piece of 3/4 plywood between it and the same plate and I got great results. You have to have that buffer to help absorb the shock. Now I clamp my plywood to a concrete bench and it works fine but I gave up using a RR for the Pardini and use a sandbag for the rear of a rifle for the pistol barrel and a regular thin bag in the back under the stock made out of a shot bag half filled with sand. If a lot of loads are shot it is hard to keep your concentration up and you can make mistakes so this is difficult also but worked better than the RR for me.

I am worried that the cast bullets you are getting are too hard. I have tried some bullets from linotype at the same time I tried some from an alloy around 9 BHN and the linotype bullets were more than double the group size.

I also have never tried any hard lube because I had such poor results in other guns so it may or may not cause problems.

[pistol champ]

Old caster,

The bullets from T&B are pretty soft and have soft lube on them very different from what other casters sell. I have not been doing much testing of different combinations as I've been shooting the combination I came up with last year. You have always given great advice and insight on what works and does not work. I would be interested in you giving these a try to see what you think.

[beeser]

Today I loaded and shot the following rounds for comparison. All were using Magtech brass instead of the thicker wall Fiocchi brass used before.

Hornady XTP 60 gr. with 1.8 gr. N310, .894" OAL. .330" crimp
Spear equivalent to the above with the same powder load
T&B 60 gr. LSWC (.314") with 1.7 gr. N310, .870" OAL, .333" crimp

The T&B gave me the best groups at 25 yds. and much, much better results than using the Fiocchi brass. Interestingly and somewhat predictably the results were not much different with the Hornady bullets using the different brass casings. I'm now playing around with expanding the cases with my .312" and .313" CH expanders. I haven't loaded any of the expanded cases yet but I'm finding that the Magtech brass springs back about .001" after running it through the expander. And my Redding resizing die doesn't seem to resize the case back to its original diameter. Not so with the Fiocchi brass, which expands like the Magtech brass, albeit harder, but resizes back to its original diameter. I suspect it all has to do with the thicker case wall.

Anyway, I'll load up some T&B bullets using expanded .312" and .313" Magtech brass and see what happens.

[oldcaster]

Old caster,

The bullets from T&B are pretty soft and have soft lube on them very different from what other casters sell. I have not been doing much testing of different combinations as I've been shooting the combination I came up with last year. You have always given great advice and insight on what works and does not work. I would be interested in you giving these a try to see what you think.

It would be interesting to shoot some of my bullets against some of the T&B bullets loaded at the same time on the same set of dies to see if there is any difference.

Some time ago I shot a lot of 32 long bullets in my Benelli 90 and normally used Lapua brass because I had around 500 of them and expected them to really be excellent. Somewhere in the experimentation I used some CBC cases and had better results. I was confused and figured it was something else that I had changed and did not realize it. My friends used Remington and had good results also.

Around this time I changed barrels to a .312 and never did get results as good as the original barrel until I shot some of my friends reloads. The only difference was that he reloaded on a Star but of course it would have different dies and possibly a different size expander and he used Remington cases while I was using Lapua. Around the time that I was catching on to this, I bought the 32 ACP Pardini and quit questioning what was happening but I think the cases were something to pay attention to. Since the 45 auto is so forgiving with case length and brand it makes us not realize how much it might matter with a small bullet like the 32.

I acquired several different brands of cases for the Pardini to measure with a mic and found the Remington to be so identical to the CBC that I can't tell which is which and wonder if they are made the same place. So far I have not tried any different cases in the Pardini but maybe I should to see if there is a difference.

[beeser]

oldcaster - I would be more than happy to send you some of my Magtech and Fiocchi brass to look at.

[oldcaster]

oldcaster - I would be more than happy to send you some of my Magtech and Fiocchi brass to look at.

I don't know if there would be any point. If you want some expanded correctly for lead bullets, anyone here would do that for you but I don't think you can reasonably expect to use them for jacketed bullets again.

[beeser]

oldcaster - I would be more than happy to send you some of my Magtech and Fiocchi brass to look at.

I don't know if there would be any point. If you want some expanded correctly for lead bullets, anyone here would do that for you but I don't think you can reasonably expect to use them for jacketed bullets again.

I'm good on this end. I have the appropriate expanders. I just thought you were looking for some other type brass to experiment with.

[oldcaster]

Thanks but I use CBC Magtech so I have a lot of them and I have a 100 Remington pieces that I haven't shot yet.. Someone also gave me about 200 range pickups so I have quite an assortment. I finally got back some of my cast bullets that I had someone put a coating on so I will shortly see if this works as well as soft lube. I don't know how much labor or cost is involved in doing this but several on this site are experimenting with this as well. It would certainly be cleaner to load and not have the soft lube all over the place.

I sized my bullets without lubing them and the guy who coated them said that it would have been better if I hadn't sized them because the lube would have stuck better since they become fairly slick on the bands when run through a sizer. I don't know if that would make the bullets too big or not.

Not too sure how much more I want to play with this because I already have good results and I said a year ago that I was going to experiment with a 9mm and lead because everyone has had such bad results and I haven't touched it yet. I think the 9 is very similar to the 32 ACP and expect that the things that make one accurate will work on the other

[beeser]

Thanks but I use CBC Magtech so I have a lot of them and I have a 100 Remington pieces that I haven't shot yet.. Someone also gave me about 200 range pickups so I have quite an assortment. I finally got back some of my cast bullets that I had someone put a coating on so I will shortly see if this works as well as soft lube. I don't know how much labor or cost is involved in doing this but several on this site are experimenting with this as well. It would certainly be cleaner to load and not have the soft lube all over the place.

I sized my bullets without lubing them and the guy who coated them said that it would have been better if I hadn't sized them because the lube would have stuck better since they become fairly slick on the bands when run through a sizer. I don't know if that would make the bullets too big or not.

Not too sure how much more I want to play with this because I already have good results and I said a year ago that I was going to experiment with a 9mm and lead because everyone has had such bad results and I haven't touched it yet. I think the 9 is very similar to the 32 ACP and expect that the things that make one accurate will work on the other

You must be reading my mind as we seem to be on a similar page. I just spent some time this afternoon using what was learned here in working with some 9mm loads. The Penn 115 gr. LSWC bullets I was using were real close to the barrel diameter of my 9mm Range Officer. Unfortunately I was getting some leading with that combination so I just ordered the same bullets except .001" larger hoping that will give better results. What bullets do you plan to use?

Incidentally, if you go to the Penn website and their Reloading Tips section they have an interesting article about loading for 9mm written by Bill Boggs.

[oldcaster]

I have a 115 grain Saeco mold and expect to start with bullets made with an alloy of around 9 BHN and white label 2500 or NRA 50/50 lube. The bullets will need to have a short base to keep from getting into the tapered part of the inside of the case. I will try different size expanders to see what is necessary to not swage my bullets down with the case and so far I have settled on Winchester brass because it seems the most consistent of the brands that I have.

Basically these are instructions for the 32 also. Just a different size bullet.

Likely you will have leading with hard bullets because they are never exactly the size you need and hard lead is not forgiving. When they are exactly right there are no problems with them but the likelihood is slim.

[fc60]

Greetings,

I have been experimenting with the 32 ACP in the last few years. Accuracy with the Hornady Jacketed bullet has been well established.

I purchased a mould from Accurate Moulds, #31-065H, as it closely matches the profile of the bullet that PardiniUSA recommends.

After a casting session using 20:1 Lead:Tin, culling begins. I first measure all the bullets with a micrometer to ferret out all the ones that did not fill the mould fully. I next visually inspected them as I grease them in my Star Lube Sizer.

I had quite a few "rejects" that did not pass the micrometer test. I did not want to melt them down and try again so I thought about swaging them. To do this, I weighed the "culls" for a target of 64 +/-0.3 grains. Next the sorted bullets were swaged to 0.314". I lubed the bullets in a plastic sandwich bag with the Lee Liquid Alox and let them dry overnight on a sheet of waxed paper.

I loaded the finished bullets in R-P cases with Winchester WSP primers such that the bullet "just touches the leade" of my PardiniUSA 32 ACP test barrel. I used 1.60 grains of VV n-310, as it performed best with cast bullets. Additionally, I loaded some test rounds with Bullseye powder.

Attached are my test targets fired at 50 yards from a machine fixture.

Cheers,

Dave

[john bickar]

Greetings,

I have been experimenting with the 32 ACP in the last few years. Accuracy with the Hornady Jacketed bullet has been well established.

I purchased a mould from Accurate Moulds, #31-065H, as it closely matches the profile of the bullet that PardiniUSA recommends.

After a casting session using 20:1 Lead:Tin, culling begins. I first measure all the bullets with a micrometer to ferret out all the ones that did not fill the mould fully. I next visually inspected them as I grease them in my Star Lube Sizer.

I had quite a few "rejects" that did not pass the micrometer test. I did not want to melt them down and try again so I thought about swaging them. To do this, I weighed the "culls" for a target of 64 +/-0.3 grains. Next the sorted bullets were swaged to 0.314". I lubed the bullets in a plastic sandwich bag with the Lee Liquid Alox and let them dry overnight on a sheet of waxed paper.

I loaded the finished bullets in R-P cases with Winchester WSP primers such that the bullet "just touches the leade" of my PardiniUSA 32 ACP test barrel. I used 1.60 grains of VV n-310, as it performed best with cast bullets. Additionally, I loaded some test rounds with Bullseye powder.

Attached are my test targets fired at 50 yards from a machine fixture.

Cheers,

Dave

I like that last one; what is that, 1.8" or less?

You're doing yeoman's work. Thanks for sharing, Dave.

[fc60]

Greetings John,

The last target (314.2014.03.0035.small.jpeg) is actually the first ten rounds of the newly swaged bullet fired.

When I looked into the scope, I was pleasantly surprised.

I have swaged up the remaining reject cast bullets and the Alox is drying as I write.

I plan to load up another series for future testing to verify the groups were not a fluke. The encouraging note is that 1.90 grains of Bullseye produced the same velocity as the 1.60 grains of vv-N310 producing potential X-ring loads.

I also need to ascertain that barrel leading/fouling stays manageable.

Many chores ahead; but, now I look forward to my next testing session.

Cheers,

Dave

[oldcaster]

Dave, I think the fact that you are using 20-1 will give you real good odds that you will not have leading even with just Alox for a lube. I generally have a little antimony in my cast bullets but that is only because it is harder to come up with pure lead to make 20-1 out of. It will be interesting to hear your results.

I am also intrigued with the .311 barrel you are trying out. I think it would be so much better to go with that size to keep from overworking the brass.

[fc60]

I am also intrigued with the .311 barrel you are trying out. I think it would be so much better to go with that size to keep from overworking the brass.

Greetings Bill,

The "Prototype" 0.311" barrel is being returned to me shortly. A fellow in "Joisey" was kind enough to function test it for me. After 300+ rounds, only two malfunctions due to "fat brass". The chamber on my new barrel is smaller that the barrel he was using.

My initial tests were not that exciting. Best I recorded were 100x9 groups with Hornady Commercial 60 XTP and reloads with the 60 XTP. The cast bullets I had did not fair as well.

I plan to chamber another barrel with yet another configuration to "see what happens". With all my other Mann Kave activities it may be some time before it takes place.

Thanks, again, for your contribution to "Project 32 ACP".

Cheers,

Dave

[oldcaster]

I blamed my 1 bullet out of 10 flyers on the off center expanding of the brass but you had it when I assume that the brass was not expanded excessively. The only other bullet I have had do this is the 9 mm which is essentially the twin brother of the 32 ACP. I wonder if maybe some pieces of brass have an inside taper that is uneven on the sides. I already checked for brass that was thicker on one side and I didn't find it. It would be difficult to accurately measure how soon the taper starts although I did try that by hand and couldn't tell, because at least, it is not obvious. I often wanted to mark a piece of brass that gave me a flyer so I could try it again but time enters in and there are always too many other options and variables to pay attention too. I thought about mounting my mic on my lathe so I could tell where I was in relation to the depth and putting a dial indicator in place so I could tell how deep I was measuring but I felt like even though there are flyers, the groups are still often stellar with the flyer being mild. Just going from 2 inches to one inches is a 100% improvement while either group is still great for Bullseye shooting.

[fc60]

Greetings Bill,

Measuring the brass would be a major effort. Also, the fired case leaves a "bulge" where the feed ramp is located.

The 32 ACP chamber is "generous" in relation to the size of a loaded cartridge so the round may not position in the chamber the same each time due to gravity, dirt, burrs on the case, etc.

What puzzles me is the wide "Extreme Spread" in velocity.

The first target is with Hornady Commercial ammo. New everything and a extremely wide variation in velocity. Could be a chronograph error?

The second target is fired cases with Hornady jacketed bullets. Again, a wide velocity spread.

Both targets show the lowest velocity as being shot #1. After that, the velocities are fairly consistent.

I do not clean the barrel between strings. There is a time gap walking down range and back to change targets.

Being a one Monkey operation, I do not have time to watch each shot as I fire them. Besides, when shooting a Match, I have to accept the value of all the shots. i.e. no foulers as in Free Pistol.

Still, progress is being made.

Cheers,

Dave

[fc60]

Greetings All,

I just noticed that this post has been "viewed" over 12,000 times!

If any of the "watchers" have comments to add regarding the loading of the 32 ACP, jump in.

I see this project as a collaborative effort.

Cheers,

Dave

[dronning]

I've checked in many times. I am very interested in the Pardini 22/32acp but have decided to wait until I meet certain goals in my shooting before I buy one. I find the topic here of immense interest because I would like to have a lead load option worked out before I purchase one. Shooting the XTP load exclusively would get be to expensive.

Thank everyone for posting all your findings, it certainly will help me make that purchase when the time comes.

- Dave

[Dipnet]

Pardini 32 shooters:
After rebuilding my Ransom Rest base to fit my gun club's benches, I ran tests on the 62gr. LSWC (0.314 diameter) bullet developed by Oldcaster and manufactured by Travis Bullets. Florida conditions were far from ideal: temp was 98F and humidity was 95%. The loads I compared are in the attached table and include Hornady factory XTPs.

I achieved groups close to what others have reported with the best load being 1.60gr VV N310. I used Federal and R-P brass and Federal, CCI, and Winchester primers. The worst load was 2.30gr Titegroup using the 60gr XTP bullet. However, I have shot several clean targets in timed and rapid fire with that load and am surprised how much it opens at 50 yards. I shot the loads with the XTP bullets first and then the cast bullets.

For reference, the 10-ring at 50 yards is 3.36 and the X-ring is 1.695 inches. Cheers, dipnet