ISSF World Cup @ FT Benning

[matchguy]

Surprised nobody posted this. We need to support our shooters so they at least keep posting the videos. The 50m Mens Prone Final was streamed live this morning. USA's Michael McPhail came from behind to win the Gold. This was outside in the wind. Can still watch the replay of the match on Livestream & Youtube. Links are at the bottom right
http://www.issf-sports.org/

or here's the Prone video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smvXhfrr3jY

There's more live events they'll be streaming live.

[Metookevin]

Seems to be a lot of disqualified shooters in mens prone event and this includes a few of the top guys. Very curious to know what happened.

[JasonM]

Watched men's prone smallbore finals and air rifle finals. The last few shots of the air rifle finals were pretty epic also.

[Dave IRL]

Seems to be a huge number of athletes DSQ for post match equipment checks. Ten in men's prone across three eliminations and the qualification. Four in men's air and one in women's air. There must be something specific that's catching people.

[svensta]

Nice to see the top 3 dudes who have often made a final
and (mostly) not medal all make it to the podium.

[Marc Orvin]

Seems to be a huge number of athletes DSQ for post match equipment checks. Ten in men's prone across three eliminations and the qualification. Four in men's air and one in women's air. There must be something specific that's catching people.

The jacket stiffness and the undergarment thickness are the main thing causing DSQ. ISSF decided to crack down on undergarment thickness at this event and they are catching a ton of them. Up to 19 DSQ's so far.

Jackets that passed the original test in pre competition equipment check are not passing after a day in the heat and humidity.

Folks wearing undergarments with elbow pads in them are being DSQ'ed as they are too thick. Also, some folks are wearing three layers of undergarments.

[jhmartin]

Marc ... I thought undergarments were tested separately.
Are they adding them all up if they are under the jacket?

I'm amazed then that they don't go "down to the skin". My guess is that many of the womens bras would not pass at seams and edges.
I've heard some gals are down to their bras unde the jackets and guys at their skin.

Is this an ISSF directive to the Jury or the Jury coming up with this?

[David Levene]

Marc ... I thought undergarments were tested separately.
Are they adding them all up if they are under the jacket?

The position on this was made clear by the ISSF in the March 2015 Rule Interpretations.

7.5.7. Under Clothing. Some 3-position rifle athletes have been observed putting on a second layer of underclothing when preparing for the standing position. This is permitted if the total thickness of all underclothing layers does not exceed 2.5 mm in thickness. Any athletes who use double layers of underclothing are advised that both layers together may not exceed 2.5 mm in thickness and that athletes who use double-layers of under clothing are subject to targeted post-competition testing.

[jhmartin]

The position on this was made clear by the ISSF in the March 2015 Rule Interpretations.

OK, confirms what I had thought David.
Now, were all those DSQ'd targeted for having multiple layers? And then again ... are ALL the layers together being tested? Not just underarmor, heatgear, sweaters, etc .... but all the way to the skin? If not, why not ... if so, it's gonna be almost like a drug test afterward .... done in the restrooms.

[KennyB]

When I did a voluntary equipment control in Hanover a couple of weeks back, they checked both layers of my underwear together. I passed...
The overlap on my jacket was a bit iffy though.

K.

[David Levene]

The overlap on my jacket was a bit iffy though.

It must have shrunk ;-)

[Abi]

This is interesting. I guess I had thought there was a difference between underwear and undergarments (leggings, t-shirt, actual clothing), not counting your skivvies as a "layer" for # of layers.

[redschietti]

In korea if you got pulled 'tape check' was part of the checking. Have to do that in private or at least semiprivate anyway. Eliz said they checked her for 'everything' not just one or two things like in the past.. Which is good! ISSF may have a plan already, but i think people DSQ need to be automatically retested at a set number of WC, maybe three, before going back on random list.

[mtncwru]

So my Underarmour plus my sweater cannot exceed 2.5mm thick at any point. How much compression is this measured under? I'll have to pull out my calipers, but I suspect that my sweater alone might exceed this in the shoulders or the elbows...

[Marc Orvin]

So my Underarmour plus my sweater cannot exceed 2.5mm thick at any point. How much compression is this measured under? I'll have to pull out my calipers, but I suspect that my sweater alone might exceed this in the shoulders or the elbows...

According to ISSF Rule 6.5.1:
The device used to measure the thickness of clothing and shoes
must be capable of measuring to one-tenth of a millimeter
(0.1 mm). Measurements must be taken with a 5.0 kg weight
applied. The device must have two (2) circular flat surfaces facing
each other, each 30 mm in diameter.

[jhmartin]

Some of the correspondence I've been getting via email note that even some sweaters off the rack of the vendors are not passing thickness tests.
So ISSF probably has a good reason to do these checks.

In the March 2015 rule interpretations that David previously quotes is the section that define what is required in the post competition checks. Many times I've skimmed this and never really studied it. Note the items a post check --must-- cover:

6.7.9.1. Post Competition Testing. This rule identifies specific items that post-competition checks must cover. Rifle checks must include shooting clothing, underclothing, taping and rifles. Pistol checks must include shoes, taping, trigger weighing, pistol dimensions and grips and ammunition velocity checks. Shotgun checks must include ammunition and Skeet marker tapes. This rule is interpreted to mean that specific items listed in 6.7.9.1 are subject to disqualification when violations are found in post-competition testing. Items that are not listed such as blinders and caps are regarded as minor violations and should receive warnings, but are not subject to post-competition disqualifications. Juries should detect and correct these items during training or before qualification competitions are completed.

[PaulB]

Question on the procedure for the measuring of undergarments. Since one normally tucks one's undershirts inside of one's shooting pants overtop of one's underpants (or tights) does the total thickness of the pants and the shirts have to be less than 2.5mm? Or are you allowed 2.5mm for underpants and 2.5mm for undershirts?

Does a women's bra thickness get added to the thickness of any undershirts?

[Metookevin]

Imagine making final 8 with 587 in 3x20 & then being disqualified - ivana maksimovik. All this in a year where quotas are being handed out. I think ultimately the rules are the problem, not the enforcement of the rules.
Cheers

[jhmartin]

While I did not go to Benning this week, the organizers are required to have the voluntary EC open all the time now.
If you are seeing a lot of DSQs happen in the days before your event, I think the smart ones would race to get in line to do the checks before your event pops up.

Last year at US Nationals you were specifically targeted if you did not do the voluntary, inefficient EC. It needs to be a less than 4 hour process.

[Marc Orvin]

Question on the procedure for the measuring of undergarments. Since one normally tucks one's undershirts inside of one's shooting pants overtop of one's underpants (or tights) does the total thickness of the pants and the shirts have to be less than 2.5mm? Or are you allowed 2.5mm for underpants and 2.5mm for undershirts?

Does a women's bra thickness get added to the thickness of any undershirts?

I asked this very question to the equipment check jury guy at 10m today. He said no, they are not checking measuring bras as part of the undergarments.