USA Shooting Not Funding Competitors?

[smmhusm]

This was posted by a member of the team going to Korea:

www.gofundme.com/paytonscompetition

[shaky hands]

It is possible that they fund only a fixed number of top shooters, not everyone who qualified. The rest have to raise their own funds.

[SamEEE]

Edited: Disregard this post.

[shaky hands]

Apparently, she has been using TAMU collegiate team pistols so far, and now she wants to buy her own AP, FP, and sport pistol. It will add up to roughly $7k, if you throw a travel case on top of those.

[spektr]

Would the Moderator please change this thread title.
This Gal, worthy as she is of suppport, is going to a Collegiate
contest in Korea. I see no need to slam USAS here.

[shaky hands]

Well, if you read carefully, she is going to two competitions, one is collegiate in Korea and one is the World Cup.

"The competition was intense and exciting, and after finishing in the top 5, I qualified to attend the USA World Cup this May! I will be competing against shooters from all over the world and if I shoot the minimum qualifying score, I will receive Olympic eligibility."

[Marc Orvin]

USAS has instituted performance scores in order to be funded. If she did not post a performance score high enough to be funded for the trip, but intends to still be part of the team, she must pay her own expenses to get there. If she doesn't attend the matches, she will be dropped from the team.

The standards were based on scores it took to make it to the finals in world competitions last year. If you don't meet those standards, USAS is not going to send you on their dime.

Sounds harsh, but it is the way things are at this point, and it looks like that will continue to be the way it is for a long time to come.

They must shoot two scores that meet the performance standard in order to be funded, or they must have made the finals in world cup matches in 2014.

Here are the standards:
MEN Performance Standard Score (PSS)
Skeet 121
Trap 120
Double Trap 138
3x40 1169
60 Prone 624
Air Rifle 625
Air Pistol 582
Free Pistol 560
Rapid Fire Pistol 582
WOMEN Performance Standard Score (PSS)
3x20 583
Air Rifle 417
Air Pistol 384
Sport Pistol 582
Skeet 70
Trap 69

Here is a link to the document USAS posted concerning PSS on August 25 last year.
http://www.usashooting.org/library/VI_P ... s_2015.pdf

These are not easy marks to hit, but these scores are what it takes to make the finals in world competition these days. If you are not up to that level, even though you might be the best in the US, it doesn't make sense to send you on an expensive trip for an event where you are not likely to make the finals.

[Hemmers]

Yeah, so the kit is one side of the story. If she can convince other people to buy her kit for her, then well done.

Certainly this side of the pond, "buying an experience" is not unheard of (depending which country you're in), especially for events that are high level but sub-World Cup where entries are not restricted to national teams.

A National Team might select their squad, and if they're travelling by coach say (which happens a lot in Europe - coaches and minibuses from one event to another) mention to people who missed the cut that there's a seat(s) on the bus, and whilst they can't fund any more athletes, the space is there if they can fund their own entry/accommodation and want a crack at an MQS.

Costs the Team nothing to let them fill an empty seat, and bolsters the experience of their development athletes.

Don't see that USAS are failing to fund anything here.

[SamEEE]

On further research she shot 561 and 563 at the Spring Selection match which is a pretty decent effort.

I donated 5 dollars and the advice to buy a Pardini!

[PaulB]

582 for women's sport pistol and 384 for women's air pistol are higher than the collegiate national records in these events. Not too many collegiate women going to be shooting them. In fact, I would be surprised if more than a dozen or so US women have ever shot these scores in a major competition.

[john bickar]

Le sigh. Aye, there's the rub. PaulB and Marc (who are two guys that I happen to have an infinite amount of respect for, dangling prepositions be damned) are both right.

I don't think World University Games is an ISSF event; might be wrong, I'm on a mobile so I can't be arsed to check. If it's not, USAS has no interest.

USAS, for better or for worse, has made it very explicit over the last 15 years (at least) that they will not fund you to international competitions unless you are capable of making the finals and winning Olympic quota slots and/or World Cup - and eventually Olympic - medals. One casualty of this line of thinking (driven by one very influential voice in and about USAS) has been the non-Olympic events. Another casualty has been collegiate international pistol.

I can see both sides. USAS's funding is primarily driven by Olympic medals. Yet up-and-comers have a hard row to hoe to get to the elite level.

I wish USAS had unlimited funds to send full teams to all international events. I also wish I had a pony.

Shit, I wish gofundme had been around when I was a struggling up-and-comer. Good for her for chasing her dreams.

[redschietti]

USAS in the two down years after this past Olympics has funded a lot of young shooters to international events. Now with quota spots on the line, and limited budget, they are trying to raise the USA standard to the level it takes to be competitive internationally. Maybe not a perfect situation, but I do see the scores needed to win major USA matches going up.

Almost as an aside, the young pistol shooters are really raising the bar.

I firmly believe that in anything, you get what you expect. If you expect 384 in WAP you will get it.

[shaky hands]

I firmly believe that in anything, you get what you expect. If you expect 384 in WAP you will get it.

But only if it motivates you to expend a necessary effort. While I am not blaming USAS for not funding those young shooters to this year's World Cup, I fail to see in general how USAS promotes the sport. It is everyone's secret that success in any Olympic sport comes from creating a network of children clubs (and providing additional training opportunities as the kids turn into adults). In my years of participation in local matches, I am yet to see anything that USAS does, except taking match fees (and sending back useless trinkets as awards). The Collegiate championships are run by NRA, coach certification is also run by NRA. Expecting 384's magically to come to life is not a strategy for success.

[shaky hands]

USAS in the two down years after this past Olympics has funded a lot of young shooters to international events.

I would like to learn more of who they sent under the "young" category and how this category is defined (I hope you are not counting Will Brown). But when I look at the participants of Youth Olympic Games in Nanjing in '14, I see exactly ZERO participants from the US in all events while I see quite a few from Ukraine, an incomparably poorer country. May be one should not be surprised then that the Ukraine is regularly in the medals and the US top female shooters take #28 ('12) and #37 ('08).

[dand]

I believe that when he said young he meant juniors. Teams of various sizes have been sent to: Bavarian Air Gun Championships in '13, '14,'15, Shooting Hopes '13, Junior Cup Suhl 2014, World Championships Spain 2014. Team sizes have been from 2 to about 20 juniors. I may be wrong about some of these details but not too far off. I think it makes sense to have a couple of years without PSS requirements and then when quotas are on the line to restrict how the funds are spent. On the other hand it seems that if you are interested in being a world class competitor you should have figured out how to get your own gear before now. I don't mean to take anything away from this girl but I always thought club equipment was to instill desire not get you to the top.
dand

[Marc Orvin]

I firmly believe that in anything, you get what you expect. If you expect 384 in WAP you will get it.

But only if it motivates you to expend a necessary effort. While I am not blaming USAS for not funding those young shooters to this year's World Cup, I fail to see in general how USAS promotes the sport. It is everyone's secret that success in any Olympic sport comes from creating a network of children clubs (and providing additional training opportunities as the kids turn into adults). In my years of participation in local matches, I am yet to see anything that USAS does, except taking match fees (and sending back useless trinkets as awards). The Collegiate championships are run by NRA, coach certification is also run by NRA. Expecting 384's magically to come to life is not a strategy for success.

Shaky,
Not sure what you expect USA Shooting to do. I just spent three weeks working all three Jr Olympic championships and watched Lydia Paterson shoot a 388 in air pistol. Watched another young man shoot 624 in prone. He was only 15 years old. So, that is one thing USA Shooting is doing. They invited over 500 young athletes for these events. I'd say that is promoting the sport.

Also, there is a progressive pistol program which is developing talent. A joint national championship will take place later this summer with shooters competing at Ft Benning and the OTC at the same time and the results being combined for purposes of determining the champions.

The Winter Airgun match will be the largest ever this December. 50 targets being brought in and set up in a gym at the OTC in addition to the 70 targets already in place.

In a few weeks, USA Shooting will conduct the US National Championships at Ft Benning. They always run an open final and a Jr final in every Olympic event.

What else would you have them do. Not being critical of your viewpoint here, just not sure you are aware of all they are already doing. Or you may be very aware, and I'm in the dark. Please enlighten me.

[shaky hands]

May be you are right, Marc, and I don't know well what they do domestically while they do a lot. Do you know a reason for not sending US juniors to the Youth Olympic Games neither in '14 nor in '10? That is one junior event on the ISSF radar. Other sports were well represented on those Olympics by US athletes.

[David Levene]

Do you know a reason for not sending US juniors to the Youth Olympic Games neither in '14 nor in '10?

Could it be that no US Juniors won a quota place perhaps?

[shaky hands]

Could it be that no US Juniors won a quota place perhaps?

I guess it is possible, but MSQ in Air is only 540. Marc, can you chip in?

[redschietti]

Money is the reason for not sending to YOGames.