Opinion wanted on new pistol purchase

[kdarwood]

I'm a newer 10 meter pistol shooter looking to buy my first PCP pistol. I had an IZH 46M in the past and never came close to outshooting it, so this is purely an "I want a new pistol" as opposed to a perceived need. I have an opportunity to purchase a new "old stock - 3 year old" Morini CM162M with two cylinders or a current Walther LP400 in carbon or aluminum with one cylinder for basically the same price. I have handled the LP400 in the past, but have never seen or held the Morini. Unfortunately I don't believe there are any clubs or stores nearby to try these out. I realize being able to hold them and shoot them would be the best way to make a decision, but since that is not possible, could some of you with experience chime in on the pros and cons of each and what you might do in my situation?

On a side note, I can get a Gehmann GP-1 that is four years old and in "like new" condition for $500 less than these two options, so take that into consideration when lending opinions. Or I could just buy a new FAS6004 ssp, save a bunch of money, and continue to shoot underwhelming scores, just as I would with a new PCP. :)

Thank you in advance for your replies..........

[SamEEE]

words

For what it is worth: I shoot a Morini 162MI and quite like it. Pretty bombproof. Flip a coin, Steyr LP-10 one side - Morini the other. Both are good.

My club has 11 of them - they get thrashed by Juniors every year and have many thousands of pellets (perhaps tens of thousands of pellets through some of them), they are tough, require minimal maintenance, and shoot very well.

The LP400 isn't bad either - but the ones that I have seen down here didn't impress me in terms of sear overlap adjustment; maybe they have fixed that now? In my inexpert view the sear grind angle wasn't quite right and as a consequence the grub screw did not affect the sear overlap in a meaningful way.

GP-1 is a clone of the Matchguns MG-1. They aren't bad either, but not as good as a Morini 162.

My YouTube thoughts on the Morini, if you're interested https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRHL04OE6vw

Edit: To further add, a graph from Igor's Blog from the 2014 World Champs.

[morten]

To make the best decision for you, you have to try them. Choosing a match AP is a matter of personal tast, they will all out shoot you :-)

I wouldn't be afraid of choosing the LP 400, it's a great pistol, yes there have been some shooters that we "HEARD OFF" experiencing miner issues, but it's a new pistol, It was launched in 2011-2012, the Morini 162 came in 1991, and wasn't perfect the 1st few years either.

In our club, most people buy the Steyr LP 10 or the Walther LP400. The Morini 162 users have had there pistol for 10+ year.

I know 12+ shooters that use the LP 400, none of them have had any problems so far, including my wife who use a LP 400 Compact

Both pistol are wise choices and will serve you well :-) I favor the LP 400

Regarding Igor's charts, the Morini has been on the marked since 1991, the Steyr LP 10 since 2000, the Walther LP 400 since 2012.
Topp shooters stick with there AP for a long time, they don't just change because something new came on the marked. Give the LP 400 some time and it will have a bigger percentage

[william]

"The LP400 isn't bad either - but the ones that I have seen down here didn't impress me in terms of sear overlap adjustment; maybe they have fixed that now? In my inexpert view the sear grind angle wasn't quite right[?!?] and as a consequence the grub screw did not affect the sear overlap in a meaningful way."

Pardon my extremely inexpert view, but this would seem to disqualify the Walther from serious consideration. If Sam's observations have any truth to them the conclusion is that these guys don't know or don't care about getting the absolute basics right.

As to the original question - and leaving Rover to post his usual, dyspeptic "Look in the archives" - if you're in the US and if budget matters, a Benelli Kite from Larry Carter should not be ruled out.

[Rover]

Actually, I like this guy. He is one of the very few who knew why he wanted a new gun and had a realistic opinion of his abilities. He didn't think he was going to buy a shot at Olympic glory with a new gun.

Both his choices would be good ones. He seemed a little concerned about price, so he could find a used one for much less (most likely a Morini). Personally, I'd look for a top of the line SSP.

[kdarwood]

Thanks for the thoughts gentleman. The fact of the matter is that the practical choice is the FAS 6004 ssp. I have no illusions about "outgrowing" this pistol. On the other hand, I have an opportunity to buy a new Morini or Walther for about $250 less than they normally sell for. Like most people, IF my passion for the sport grows, I will most likely want the shiny, new toy that produces a feeling of "pride of ownership". Just wondering if I should jump on this deal early and skip the step of buying multiple times. I can see the benefits of both, so just looking for a definitive reason to make my choice. Then again a 2011 like new Gehmann GP-1 for a few pennies less than $900 is appealing too. I don't mind spending more for something I really want and I can afford it, but I'm also a practical guy for the most part, so I hate spending unwisely. Thanks again for your thoughts. Keep them coming.....

[David Levene]

Like most people, IF my passion for the sport grows, I will most likely want the shiny, new toy that produces a feeling of "pride of ownership". Just wondering if I should jump on this deal early and skip the step of buying multiple times.

It's not just "pride of ownership" that you get with most modern PCP pistols. You also get a gun that is easier to shoot in a competition, which could be the difference between loving the sport or being so-so about it.

[rmca]

The only major difference between the three pistols you mentioned is that two of them are more adjustable than the Morini.
The major (and probably only) fault with the morini is that the grip angle is not adjustable. The walther and the gehmann are.
This makes a lot of difference if you pick up a morini, point it at a target and the sights are not aligned.
Then you have to twist your wrist (bad idea) or carve the grip (not that much meat because of the electronic circuit).

On the other two, there are screws that control that angle.

The gehmann and the walther are top tier guns (as is the morini), and you won't be "held back" with either. Choose the one you like more, as it will be important when you get around to shoot it. The more you like it, the more you'll probably shoot it.

Also, have a look and see if you can find a used one. These guns last forever and only need a couple of o-rings from time to time. You could save a bit more that way.
Have a look at an LP10, either mechanical or electronic. You can't go wrong with one of these either.

Last but not least, these guns hold their value very well on the second hand market, especially if you buy used, so if you decide down the line that this ins't for you, you will probably get most (if not all) your money back.

Hope this helps

[Rover]

Since price seems to be a concern, your choice of a FAS 6004 (cheap, with no accessories to buy) makes sense. The velocity on these is very low, so you'd need light pellets and high quality targets for easy scoring.

If you can find one, a used Pardini K58 would be a far better choice.

[william]

Since price seems to be a concern, your choice of a FAS 6004 (cheap, with no accessories to buy) makes sense. The velocity on these is very low, so you'd need light pellets and high quality targets for easy scoring.

If you can find one, a used Pardini K58 would be a far better choice.

I don't get it. Nobody has ever claimed the FAS is any more accurate than an Izh. Given that, it really is nothing more than a shiny new object. At least a PCP provides the ease / convenience factor over an SSP.

Isn't Rover's incessant drumbeating for SSP pistols for everybody else while he happily shoots a PCP (justified by the low purchase price) the dictionary definition of hypocrisy? No problem - there's always room for more "Do as I say not as I do."

[kdarwood]

I have no problem with Rover's advice. I did not care for my IZH due to the heavier forward weight. I got rid of it years ago and haven't shot 10 meter since then. I have handled a FAS604 and really liked the more center balanced feel. I love that ssp is self contained and I have avoided pcp due to my desire for simplicity, but I also don't underestimate the benefits of pcp, hence the request for advice. I'm currently leaning towards the Walther LP400 carbon, but I have never handled the aluminum version, so I can't compare. Basically, I am leaning towards the carbon version because I don't like a lot of forward balance. All that being said, I'm a newbie and my preferences could change with more experience. Can anyone with actual experience compare/contrast the carbon/aluminum versions?

[David M]

The main reason for going to a PCP pistol (gas gun) over a SSP (pump gun) is that
over time the rules for Airpistol have reduced the match times a couple of times.
With a pump gun this has reduced the recovery time for fatigue due to pumping.
I know we are not talking much but any drop in performance can cost points.
The gas guns are a lot easier to use, less fatigue.

[Rover]

A lot of guys buy David M's opinion. Since you are already shooting the IZH, you would know if you're ready to keel over from exhaustion at the end of a match.

[william]

A lot of guys buy David M's opinion. Since you are already shooting the IZH, you would know if you're ready to keel over from exhaustion at the end of a match.

To quote Gershwin, "It ain't necessarily so." I never appreciated how much energy I was expending until I swapped my Izh for a PCP (and I was a good deal younger than I am now).

[seamaster]

http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/morini-cm-162e.html

Is that price for real?

[paw080]

Hi RCMA, I believe that Kdarwood, is looking at the Morini 162 M which has a mechanical trigger.

The M trigger version does have an adjustable grip.........I think.....

Tony

[kdarwood]

Thank you to everyone who commented and gave opinions. After much deliberate thought, I have decided to go with the FAS6004 ssp. Since this will be mostly for shooting 10 meter in my house and not at a club, I just can't justify the purchase of an expensive pcp. What little fatigue I might experience with the ssp will be of very little consequence at this point. Truth be told, I would feel a little foolish using such high end equipment at my current skill level. The FAS is PLENTY accurate and easy to use for my needs. If I continue to progress in the sport, I will no doubt get a pcp, so this discussion has helped me with a potential future purchase. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to respond.

[rmca]

Hi RCMA, I believe that Kdarwood, is looking at the Morini 162 M which has a mechanical trigger.

The M trigger version does have an adjustable grip.........I think.....

Strangely enough I've only seen and held the electronic versions of the Morini 162... So I can't say.
Shame that the electronic version doesn't allow the grip to move... it has THE best AP trigger in my opinion.

Cheers

[Rover]

Now that I've beaten the drum for the SSP's, let me toss this out: Many have guzzled the PCP Kool-Ade with predictable results. They sold/traded their very high quality CO2 guns to jump on the bandwagon. Now those guns are out there cheap and all you need to support them is to buy a CO2 tank from a welding supply place (cheap). When empty, you return it and they give you a full one. This means no sweating spendy pressure tests, etc., and it only costs around $12.

You can have all the "benefits" of a high zoot gun without headaches, and cheap.

Did I mention "cheap"?

[FocalX100]

http://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/morini-cm-162e.html

Is that price for real?

Yes, it's a used pistol (they call it occasion instead of used), but their prices are quite competitive.