Noptel Trainer vs. New Scatt Trainer

[rigwhanson]

I am interested in recommendations from anyone that has hands on experience with both of these systems. I am interested in a system that I can use both in just the dummy target mode as well as live fire out to 50m.

[ZD]

RGw

I have experience with both systems. Please bear in mind that until this last September, I had been using the old scatt usb models on my team.

Noptel: We got one in September, and it worked the first day out of the box. I hated the sight picture, since the 10m target it ships with is surrounded by a complete circle of reflective material (the Noptel sensor bases its location from the reflective material). I fixed this by printing out my own target, and cutting an oversized u shaped material from another target. Worked well for dry firing, never used it for air rifle. However, despite it being more reliable than scatt usb, I still did not like it. The software is less user friendly and provides me less relevant data as a shooter than scatt, for instance Scatt tells me precisely how long it took to take the shot, and how long I stayed in the ten ring, while Noptel just shows graphs. Also, to get it to shoot out at 50m, you need a special reflective unit, although I have never used it out past 10m.

http://www.edinkillie.co.uk/ecatalog/no ... l?cPath=41

Scatt Mx2: We obtained one also in September, and it also worked the first day out of the box. I have found it to be vastly superior and more reliable over the previous scatt units, and I like it far better than the Noptel. My long tangent aside, I would recommend the new Scatt unit over the Noptel. It works well, and Scatt updates their software, while Noptels is difficult to get ( we had to run ours on an older computer). I have never used it beyond live air rifle, however one of the members of this site gave the new Scatt unit an excellent comprehensive review. Links are below

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-rev ... c-trainer/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... igh-power/

-Zach

[rigwhanson]

Great information! Thank you for taking the time to post your experience. Very good articles as well. It is not clear to me at this time how I would mount the MX-02 unit to my air pistol but I expect that problem can be solved.

Thanks Again

[dronning]

... It is not clear to me at this time how I would mount the MX-02 unit to my air pistol but I expect that problem can be solved.

Thanks Again

The MX02 uses the same type of mount their WS1 uses it's a v mount with a band. What kind of air pistol? If it is a PCP with a tank it is simple.

I own the SCATT WS1 and love it (no wires to the gun) for me it was a better option because I also train with my Bullseye guns (dry fire). Down side of the WS1 is the electronics down range.

- Dave

[rigwhanson]

Currently for a air pistol I am using a LP-50 to shoot air pistol and to practice bullseye with a heavier trigger pull. I am shooting on a Sius HS-10 target.

[mld]

My Scatt MX-02 came with a thin steel band that mounts around the air cylinder. Fully adjustable and slips between the barrel shroud and air cylinder on my LP10. The sensor mounts vertically below the air cylinder.

The steel band does not fit my TOZ 35. I ordered the barrel insert mount because there is no room under the barrel to mount the sensor. I've been shooting a reduced 50 metre target at 10 metres. You have to make sure the insert is mounted vertically below the muzzle, otherwise your sights will be way off at 10 metres.

The paper target needs to be well lit with a floodlight in order for the sensor to work properly; there is a "low light" setting in the software but I haven't noticed much of a difference when using it.

An excellent compact system. You can throw everything into your laptop bag.

[rigwhanson]

Thank you for that information there is not a lot of clearance between the cylinder and the barrel shroud so I was concerned that the mounting band would not fit in between.

[rigwhanson]

If you use the MX-02 in a 5 shot sustained fire sequence i.e. in 10 or 20 seconds will it trace the entire aiming path and place the shots?

[dronning]

Currently for a air pistol I am using a LP-50 to shoot air pistol and to practice bullseye with a heavier trigger pull. I am shooting on a Sius HS-10 target.

Interesting, I also have an LP50 with the heavy trigger I train sustained fire with, I've just never used it with the SCATT.
The only AP I use with the SCATT is my LP10E.

The SCATT needs at least 1 second between shots. You can adjust the before and after trace times. It will give you a separate trace for each shot.

I'm not sure the value of analyzing sustained fire traces with an AP, it will be completely different with the a .22/CF/45.

When I train with the SCATT and my bullseye pistols I am mostly group training. After I shoot my centering shot I flip the target over and have no bull to look at, then I turn the monitor away shoot a 10 shot string. This allows me to focus only on the front sight. The SCATT gives me feedback on my hold and trigger control. When I started training this way my groups always had some 8 ring shots and scored in the mid 80's. Now I'm usually 7 or more shots inside the 10 ring with no 8's (97 or greater) usually with at least 5 X's. I just wish that translated perfectly to match day! LOL

Dave

[rigwhanson]

When you practice bullseye and shoot the group on a blank target are you shooting 25 yd sustained fire?

Although shooting the sustained fire with the LP-50 does not do anything to help your recoil tolerance and recovery it still I found improved my scores significantly to the point where I went up a classification this past year and shot the best I ever have at Perry. My overall Perry score was not anything to write home about but I did put a couple slow fire targets together in CF that were good for 12 th overall. I felt pretty good about that.

[dronning]

When you practice bullseye and shoot the group on a blank target are you shooting 25 yd sustained fire?

Although shooting the sustained fire with the LP-50 does not do anything to help your recoil tolerance and recovery it still I found improved my scores significantly to the point where I went up a classification this past year and shot the best I ever have at Perry. My overall Perry score was not anything to write home about but I did put a couple slow fire targets together in CF that were good for 12 th overall. I felt pretty good about that.

I dry fire with my bullseye pistols 22/CF/45 using the back side of the SCATT target so it is slow fire only. It's just like dry firing against a blank wall but with feedback from the SCATT which I don't look at until after I fire a 10 round string. It gives me feedback on grip and trigger with no distraction from the bull.

I agree the LP50 will help on sustained fire that's why I got mine. I shoot at a 25 yard target reduced to 10meters. Great results. What I was saying is I don't think the SCATT trace would be meaningful, maybe I'm wrong in my assumption, but that's why I don't use it while practicing sustained fire with the LP50.

Live fire training I use the UMC Pistol Team Workbook as my guide.

You can get a copy on Brian Zins site http://www.brianzins.com/training/

- Dave

[rigwhanson]

One last, I think, question? What initiates the aiming trace in each system. Do you key the computer or when it sees the target or ? Thanks

[bdutton]

One last, I think, question? What initiates the aiming trace in each system. Do you key the computer or when it sees the target or ? Thanks

In the SCATT... it when the aiming transmitter comes into line of the receiving sensors.

[Ed Hall]

The program begins tracking when the receiver picks up a signal, but the data is held in temporary memory until the shot is detected. Then a "window" of the memory gets saved based on settings in the program. The window will be from a short time prior to a short time after the shot is detected.

[BigAl]

The program begins tracking when the receiver picks up a signal, but the data is held in temporary memory until the shot is detected. Then a "window" of the memory gets saved based on settings in the program. The window will be from a short time prior to a short time after the shot is detected.

Sometimes I think it would be good if the system would record all attempts at a shot. This would be really good for looking at the reasons why a shooter would reject a shot, compared to why they then take the shot on another attempt. Rejecting the shot seems to be one of the hardest things to teach a shooter.

Alan

[Freepistol]

The program begins tracking when the receiver picks up a signal, but the data is held in temporary memory until the shot is detected. Then a "window" of the memory gets saved based on settings in the program. The window will be from a short time prior to a short time after the shot is detected.

Sometimes I think it would be good if the system would record all attempts at a shot. This would be really good for looking at the reasons why a shooter would reject a shot, compared to why they then take the shot on another attempt. Rejecting the shot seems to be one of the hardest things to teach a shooter.

Alan

Great idea Alan!