shooting to the right

[TommyH]

Hi

I've posted this question before about me shooting/pulling to the right with my Morini 162ei and I got some excellent advice on triggering from you, however, I'm still doing it - never, ever to the left, not a single shot. Nice little groupings but always to the right, if I could just move them over to the left by 30 mm!!!

I have the rear sight cranked over to the left as far as it will go in order to try and get the shots falling in to the centre. No matter what adjustments I make to the rear sight nothing changes to the sideways shots. Is this muzzle flip, are my rear sights faulty???

Appreciate any replies (even from Rover)

Tom

[Rover]

Bend the barrel.

[HWN1011]

I am not a pistol shooter but maybe try and find someone with a Scatt system. It would show up any problems very quickly.
Maybe someone in your club has a Scatt you can have a quick go on?

[rmca]

A couple of things I would check before bending the barrel ;)

Are the sights free to move or are they bottom out on the grip?
Is the rear sight screwed in tight, and in it's correct place on the gun?
Is your front sight completely vertical in the rear sight? Or is it tilted to one side?
Did you knocked the pistol or sights anywhere? Dropped it?

Finally, can you call those right shots out of group before you pull the target or look at the screen?

The solution is right there, just keep looking...

[Rover]

Well, rmca, you know me...always ready with a quick solution and a Sagres.

I shouldn't have been so glib. As you say, the solution is right in front of his face.

I've always said, take the situation in hand and come up with a solution.

[j-team]

Hi


I have the rear sight cranked over to the left as far as it will go in order to try and get the shots falling in to the centre. No matter what adjustments I make to the rear sight nothing changes to the sideways shots. Is this muzzle flip, are my rear sights faulty???

Tom

Have someone else shoot the pistol. If the sights really are as far left as they will go another shooter firing it will soon tell you if the sights have actually moved all the way left. If they still shoot right then there's probably something wrong with the pistol, but if they shoot all the way left, then your techinque is the problem!

[David Levene]

Have someone else shoot the pistol. If the sights really are as far left as they will go another shooter firing it will soon tell you if the sights have actually moved all the way left. If they still shoot right then there's probably something wrong with the pistol, but if they shoot all the way left, then your techinque is the problem!

Good advice from the future (NZ's been in 2015 for several hours - Happy New Year)

[Rover]

Feliz ano novo!

[rmca]

Feliz Ano Novo, Rover!
And to all of you!

[TommyH]

A couple of things I would check before bending the barrel ;)

Are the sights free to move or are they bottom out on the grip?
Is the rear sight screwed in tight, and in it's correct place on the gun?
Is your front sight completely vertical in the rear sight? Or is it tilted to one side?
Did you knocked the pistol or sights anywhere? Dropped it?

Finally, can you call those right shots out of group before you pull the target or look at the screen?

The solution is right there, just keep looking...

I have adjusted the screw from as far left to as far right as it will go and to me the rear sights don't seem to move all that much.

two other shooters have tried the pistol and with similar results to me.

The fitting of the sights seem normal without any obvious anomaly.

I can call 'flyers' - (brought on by competition nerves) - always to the right

I suppose now I will have to get the pistol checked out, I was avoiding this though as it will undoubtedly be expensive - unless I just bend the barrel

Thanks for the replies, all the best for the new year everyone

Tom

[BigAl]

Let me get this correct. You can shoot good small groups? Say around the size of the ten ring. When you put a shot out of this group you can call it? When you attempt to adjust the sights they do not seem to move very far, at least in windage, and this seems to have little effect on MPI? You have had two other (hopefully good) shooters shoot the pistol with essentially the same results?

I have a couple more questions that I don't think have been asked/answered. If you adjust the elevation what happens? Moving the rearsight blade vertically the same distance as horizontally should have the same effect on MPI. If the blade is moving freely in the vertical direction do the shots move with it? Also does the front sight post have any horizontal adjustment? I seem to recall seeing some pistols that used this method for course zero adjustment, with only fine adjustment on the rearsight. If this were fully over to the left it would explain the shots being off to the right. It would also explain a rearsight that had relativly small travel.

If the answer to both those last two questions is no, then I'm pretty sure you have a problem with either the mounting or operation of the rearsight. The fact it seem to have very little effect I would possibly think more operation than alignment. Just out of interest how far is MPI from the MPA? 9 ring, 8 ring, further?

Alan

[FredB]

In the Morini 162 rear sight the operation of windage travel is closely tied to the operation of gap opening. I don't remember the exact relationship, but one definitely affects the other. I vaguely remember that if the gap is adjusted to be wide, then the windage travel becomes very limited in one direction, but that may not be correct. In any case, there have been previous discussions on TT about this topic. It might be worth finding that thread from several years ago, because it detailed how to disassemble and correct for that particular rear sight issue.

HTH,
FredB

[rmca]

I have adjusted the screw from as far left to as far right as it will go and to me the rear sights don't seem to move all that much.

AHA! There it is!

Even with a "naked eye" you should be able to see the rear sight move from side to side.
Get a ruler or better, a set of calipers, and measure the position of the rear sight in relation to a fix point on the gun (end of the grip for example.). Then turn the screw all the way to the other side and measure again. You should have a difference of 3-4 mm between the two. This varies from gun to gun, and I don't have a morini to measure right now, but those numbers should be more or less correct.

If that number stays the same you have a problem... Try FredB solution and shrink the gap, then try to move the sights.
If that doesn't fix it, and if you are mechanically inclined, you could try to take the thing apart and see if anything is worn or broken (part 162055T, http://www.pilkguns.com/tenp/ )

Hope this helps.

[Rutty]

First of all, ask around in the club to see if anyone has a Dial Test Indicator (DTI). (As an aside, it's a piece of equipment that every club should have.):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41003466@N00/5369563561/

The link shows one in use for checking a rifle rearsight, but you should get the idea. Check the sight movement for magnitude and repeatability. Check the total amount of displacement, left and right; they should be almost equal. Do this for both elevation and windage. If all the figures look sensible, then you need to look at the geometry of the foresight\rearsight.

BTW, a photo of your rearsight showing the current displacement from centre might be useful.

Rutty

[oldcaster]

I always measure how far rear sights move in any number of clicks and then do the math so I know exactly how much the point of aim moves because manufacturers don't always tell the truth. Using a caliper you can measure off of a different part of the sight that doesn't move. If the blade doesn't move there is another problem. Is it possible that you are turning the blade gap width and not the left right part for adjustment.

[gn303]

Hi Tom,

My little 5 cents. First thing to check: how does it point after the shot, when you really put your effort on a follow through? If it to the right then I would suggest to take a good look at the grip. Make sure it fits well in to the hand. It will probable take some time and effort, but it may bring a solution.

Good shooting.

Guy

[Jimro]

If the groups don't move when the sights are adjusted, there are two possible problems.

1, sights are broken. This has been addressed by previous replies.

2, the shooter has an incorrect sight picture. Could be habit, could be an astigmatism, etc.

As an experiment, shoot opposite hand, opposite eye, and see if the problem still manifests. If the problem remains, let us know.

Jimro

[TommyH]

All

Some great replies, just to dispel one - it's definitely the wind-age screw I'm adjusting, not the blade gap width. I tried a little experiment today, I lined my shot up - closed my eyes, let the shot go 'very smoothly', opened my eyes to follow through, did this ten times for three different targets, guess what: all shots 30 to 60mm to THE LEFT, (shooting with my eyes closed may sound a bit mad but I was getting desperate, however, never missed the target once, which was at home, against a brick wall in a pellet catcher, 1000% safe). I have now cancelled appointment to get the pistol seen to and have instead arranged for the fitting of a rink grip bespoke fitted to my hand. This is a first stage approach to my problem, I know there's a lot more I have to do, but hopefully will get there.

Tom

[rmca]

Tom

So what you are saying is that you've run out of windage adjustment AND you still are left of the target?
If so, confirm that the rear sight is working by (significantly) adjusting it the other way and then do a ten shot group. Is it more to left?
Do the same with the up/down. Do the groups after the adjustment move in the correct way on the target?
Shooting with your eyes closed doesn't help a bit. You didn't see here the front sight was when the shot breaks!
Do those test groups normally, (with your eyes opened!) and confirm the function of the rear sight.
Only then, should you pass on to the grip.

Also, have someone take a look at you when you are shooting... A second pair of eyes normally does miracles!

Hope this helps

[David Levene]

If 2 other shooters have had the same result as you then, IMHO, fitting a new grip is unlikely to work.

You may be interested in the following, which was originally posted by Steve Swartz in 2006. It's normally associated with 162EI sights that won't go far enough to the right, but who knows?

O.K., I had to go through soem fine tuning on my new 162E. I have a 6mm front blade (barn door) and use about 1/3 the front width on either side (open barn doors) on a sub six hold (front sight on bottom edge of barn doors).

Bad eyes.

Anyhow, I first noticed that it appeared as though I could have either wide notch, or centered notch, but not both. I Feel Your Pain.

If you aren't comfortable chasing little springy bits around your house, stop now and send to Scott.

Assuming you are prepared to completely disassemble your rear sight assembly, do so now. When you get to the point where the rear notch sub assembly is "free," you will note that (oh by the way, put that spring that just went flying across the room in a Safe Place. And yeah, hope you got a real good look at exactly how it is supposed to go back in cause it's real easy to do it wrong) the two halves of the blade can be rotated along the two-threaded rod piece they are attached to. The rod is counter threaded (IIRC) so screwing them in the same direction actually moves them in tandem along the rod left-right; screwing them in opposite directions makes them either closer together or farther apart.

Hope you counted the number of clicks used when disassembling the rear sight assembly . . . this comes in real handy later so you can tell whether or not you actually amde things better before reassembling the whole danged thing to find out you actually just made it worse! As you unscrew the rear blade subassembly using the L/R adjustment screw you are creeping the two blade halves along the double-threaded rod at the same time. This gets clearer here in a paragraph or two.

Once the rear blade subassembly is free, take a moment and admire the elegance of this engineering solution. No, seriously! Cussing out the design engineers right now isn't helping. It is a quite clever piece at that.

O.K., what you are trying to do is get the blades wide apart, but way over on the left side of the rod. When you screw the rod-blades subassembly back in, you want there to be enough threads left to get the RH blade over to the RH side without running out of thread.

This is really hard to explain without your actually seeing it.

You will have to flop the left blade >>out<< (notch wider!) a few revolutions (how many is a few? wish I knew. I didn't follow the advice I'm giving you right now; I had to Find Out The Hard Way). ANyhow, I think two or three revolutions should do it . . . oops, the left blade just popped off the rod! O.K., one less than that then. Stiff upper lip now; back at it!

Anyhow, be prepared to fiddle with this several times installing/tweaking/re-installing before you get it just right.