Modern Pentathlon

[conradin]

I wonder should we set up a sub forum for this discipline. I have watched quite a few youtube videos now for the new shooting equipment. Quite a few competitions such as the world championship. It seems like it is indeed very close to air pistol. Perhaps since this place is about Olympic style hooting, we can add a forum for it?

I do find it shocking, or rather maybe we take it for granted, that athletes should be able to shoot the black (hit or miss) every single time. In these videos we see the top competitors who are weak at shooting sometimes take as much as 15 tries to hit the 5 black (7s).

I see what they are doing with the "combined event", they are trying to emulate biathlon, without the penalty loop or penalty minutes (unless the athlete abandon or give up). It is quite interesting.

I completely disagree with the use of laser system, but nevertheless it has a fun factor. In biathlon you can still accurately see what the athletes are doing while they are shooting 22s.

Definitely an interesting sport.

[David Levene]

I do find it shocking, or rather maybe we take it for granted, that athletes should be able to shoot the black (hit or miss) every single time.

Whilst it is probable that most Pentathletes would not make it to the highest ranks in shooting, I do wonder how many shooters would hit the black every time having just run 800m (possibly three times with less than a minute break) under race conditions.

[Rutty]

Now, it's their ball but, having watched a few events I cannot help but feel that the shooting has been technically sidelined and turned into the only televisual element of what is otherwise a pretty dull event. That is unless you're into horsieculture!

I would have preferred; and still would prefer; a shooting element that required the competitors to hit all 5 targets in order with (say) 12 shots or be eliminated. Missing a target would require a competitor to hit the preceding target again before continuing to the next one. Run out of shots before you hit al 5 then it's early bath time!

But as I say, it's their ball.

Rutty

[conradin]

If they want to keep it REAL modern than I guess the swimming portion will now be scuba as if they are the SEALs, Shooting using either 9mm or 45ACP. Driving Humvees instead of horsie riding. UFC style instead of fencing. Running Marathon instead of on the track.

[Brian Girling]

I had a UPIM licence for the Combined event but I let it lapse as I do not agree with the principle of laser shooting.

I have officiated at World Cups, European Championships and the Olympics, but that's it - no more. I still officiate at domestic pellet Combined Events.

How long before the IOC insist on lasers for other shooting events? I hope that the ISSF put up a good fight!

[conradin]

I don't understand the safety excuse. Biathlon in this year's Olympic is pretty good, I don't see anyway in which the .22lr can hurt anyone the way the Russian set up the range. Computer-live-timing is good so the crowd or TV audience know right away who made the five shots and which and when a shot is missed. The place is crowded with spectators.

The excuse of lead for environmental reason is even worse. The grand total of lead being used in the entire competition is probably less than a couple of hours in a regular US gun range.

The excuse of cost is also bogus. You buy a pellet gun and then you get rid of the barrel and buy a laser add on. How can that be cheaper? Plus how can you practice in real life? Finally the cylinder, which on average cost $200 to $250, is now no more but a barrel weight.

The excuse of travel via air is easier is also bogus. You still pack a cylinder. If it were air pistol competition, you do the same with cylinders emptied.

The cost of a first rate pellet gun is higher than an average Olympic pistol.
You don't have to buy a Pardini. An IZH-35 will do the job nicely. But for an air pistol you are talking about averaging $2k given the brand that the laser unit can adapt.

Switching to pellet guns and then to laser so that athletes from gun banning countries can compete is BS, Many countries ALSO ban pellet guns.

It is a military based sport. It is also a rich person's sport. The founder Pierre de Coubertin probably thought that this sport could not be professional trained and hence be a gentleman's sport. The Soviets obviously proved him wrong. In fact I suspect the Swedes proved him wrong immediately.

I saw pictures of old USSR pentathlon athletes shooting using the Margolin. They look much proper to me and I feel instant respect for the sport. Not right now with athletes wearing basic running outfit and stop at a station to shoot what looks like a laser tag tool.

If the IOC wants to kick out the sport, so be it. Just keep reminding them that this is the founder's personal wish. And even that it was turned down numerous times before the IOC added the event.

Pierre de Coubertin sometimes got things right. He insisted that shooting be an Olympic sport event right at the beginning. It was so successful that the world championship was born the very next year (1897).

I think if someone is adventurous and investigate I bet a few people are privately benefiting from this laser idea, and I do not mean the laser system manufacturer. Check a few people's private pocket or bank account. I honestly think corruption is in play.

[Mike M.]

That's my suspicion as well. IIRC, the only person in favor of it was the head of the international organization.

[thecrownsown]

Hello all,

I'm interested in getting some info. on modern pentathlon and where I could learn the specific sport of pistol shooting. I guess its with lasers now. Im in the Kitchener Waterloo area.

Thanks.

[jr]

First everyone wanted a laser gun, then it turns out they're not quite as fun as we thought from the movies...

[mbradley]

Laser guns of any sort will destroy your sport and your culture. Especially your culture. Everything that you love about being around shooting will disappear.

[conradin]

Just look up for your local laser tag address.

The closest you can train like that, is to buy a high dollar AP, then purchase a SCATT. Come to think of it, even SCATT is cheaper than the laser idea..

[conradin]

Laser guns of any sort will destroy your sport and your culture. Especially your culture. Everything that you love about being around shooting will disappear.

It should then be re-categorized as E-sport. I bet South Korean will sweep all competition.

[thecrownsown]

Guys,


Im just interested in the sport as something new. I dont disagree that a "laser gun" isnt the same as shooting a firearm. I hold a restricted PAL license and enjoy shooting.

But I'm also a swimmer/runner/fencer and thought I'd give it a try. I dont have the right to pass judgement on the sport of Pentathlon as I have never tried it, and just getting involved in it. Its peaked my interest though and something I want to try.

I'm just looking for some guidance or help on the shooting aspect. I'm in KW Ontario, Canada. Just doing some searches on the webs led me to this forum as it also involves olympic shooting. I'm just interested in some info. if anyone can help.

I've already been in touch with Pentathlons governing body in Ontario, but was hoping there was someone in Ontario here that could give me some direction,pointers, etc. I did a search and there was some threads on pentathlon.

Thanks all.

TCO.

[Rutty]

I'm just looking for some guidance or help on the shooting aspect. I'm in KW Ontario, Canada. Just doing some searches on the webs led me to this forum as it also involves olympic shooting. I'm just interested in some info. if anyone can help.

Regrettably it is somewhat stretching the point to say that Modern Pentathlon involves Olympic Shooting. What is done in the Combined Event bears little if any resemblance to the other Olympic target shooting sports. Modern Pentathlon have chosen to to go their own way with their own rules and equipment and you will find nothing in the ISSF Rules to help inform you.

Rutty

[conradin]

The combined make it similar to a summer biathlon with laser tag. The spirit is supposed to be five individual and separate sports, not four. In a combine, the shooting will be more difficult, period; shooting technique will also have to be changed, adopting something similar to biathlon.

[tufty]

David makes a very good point,I have been coaching some athletes from Pentathlon GB in pistol shooting,it is a totally different discipline to precision shooting,they have 70 seconds to shoot 5 knockdown targets,it makes no difference to your finishing score if you miss all of them,it's only a time advantage if you can knock all of them down in less than 70 seconds.
It's very rare that any of the athletes are to start with shooters,most are selected for their running or swimming prowess,and then taught to shoot,they shoot incredibly fast,and under stress as their heart rate is up to 3 times your standing heart rate on entering the shooting range,try running round your garden and shooting 5 shots in the black.....bet you can't!!

[john bickar]

try running round your garden and shooting 5 shots in the black.....bet you can't!!

I'll take that bet.

[Brian Girling]

they have 70 seconds to shoot 5 knockdown targets,it makes no difference to your finishing score if you miss all of them,it's only a time advantage if you can knock all of them down in less than 70 seconds.

That is a GBR rule for pellet pistols for lasers it is 50 seconds, UIPM rule 5.4.4 (v) states 50 seconds for both.

I do not fancy running 800m let alone shooting after that, especially 4 times!!