1911 ACP

[conradin]

I am about to learn how to shoot the 45acp in B/E. What would you guys recommend?
1. Pardini GT45 - California illegal, and I have exactly five weeks to purchase it as a SSE with no guarantee that my FFL be able to convert it to SSE and sell it to me and then revert it back to semi-automatic later.
2. ANY 1911 ACP, any brand, straight out of the box, not necessarily has target shooting in mind.
3. Colt Gold Cup series 70/80, straight out of the box.
4. Any pistol accruzied by someone with a good reputation. May or may not fit me. Some of these guns are C&R.
5. My best friend told me to buy a high quality target designed 1911 45ACP and find someone to accurizing for me...anything else is a waste of money.

Let's face it, I am a beginner.

Also, I am completely confused by the word "Hardball". Some explain that it is a regular military 1911 straight out of a box...with no target gun design whatsoever. Some explain that the rounds have to be FMJ. Why hardball , and why not? Advice?

[CR10X]

(1) Depends on if you can now keep all your shots in the black, or on the target, or just on the berm at 50 yards with a .22? That may help determine the level of investment. If the capacity to keep all on the target is not already there, stay with the .22 for a while. Otherwise, you should probably buy the most expensive one you can afford as it might last long enough to get you there and have the most resale value.
(2) Search "wadcutter versus hardball"
(3) Good luck.

[Rover]

Go with number four. You'll find one for sale at any match.

If you can't hit squat with a .22, you sure as hell won't hit it with a .45. It'll just cost you lots more to screw up.

Apparently, the NRA is changing the rules a little so you can use a .22 all the way through a 2700. Do that! (I know you'll choose the costly F-up, but I can't resist giving you good advice and watch you piss it away!)

[conradin]

I prefer cheap, and works, and good for beginners. (4) for the right price seem to be good.
Strangely when I train, I did much better in CFP than STP. No idea why.
I only plan to do bullseye for fun. If everything lands on the target that will be a good start.

[Trooperjake]

I would get a Springfield Range Officer, and have a trigger job done.
It will get you a long way, at least through Expert.
At that time you can go for the complete upgrade with a top pistol smith.
A new decked out 1911 will cost you over $2.000, (les Baer, FCB, etc) the Range Officer about $800.00 plus $50-$150.00 for the trigger job.

If money is no concern, I would buy the Pardini GT45. I wouldn't trade mine for a 1911, and I have 3.
Only down side to the Pardini, is, it's a double stack grip, so you need a reasonably sized hand.

At around $1200-$1500 you can find many good used top of the line 1911's.

Your money, your choice.
Good luck

[dschaller]

Also, I am completely confused by the word "Hardball". Some explain that it is a regular military 1911 straight out of a box...with no target gun design whatsoever. Some explain that the rounds have to be FMJ. Why hardball , and why not? Advice?

Hardball usually refers to CMP EIC matches ( http://thecmp.org/competitions/eic-matc ... ce-pistol/ ). Pistols must currently be military stock appearing except for a very few changes. Barrels can be replaced with more accurate ones, parts can be fitted for accuracy, match sights can be installed, stippling can be done to the grip, and a trigger job can be done (but 4.5 lbs minimum). Iron sights only. Back when men were men, you shot ammo provided by the (then) DCM, which was 230gr "hardball" military style ammo. Then they started allowing any factory ammo with 230gr round nose bullets. At some point they also started allowing 9mm Berettas, as that had become the standard military sidearm. Now I believe that they allow handloads, and don't police the velocity as long as the bullet is correct (not sure what the 9mm ammo is). This makes it much easier to shoot.

A hardball gun is legal for NRA Bullseye matches, and may even function with lower power wadcutter ammo with a change in springs, but most likely a .45 NRA Bullseye legal pistol you see at a match will not be legal for a CMP EIC match. Most bullseye competitors now use optical sights, which definitely isn't CMP legal. Beavertail grip safeties, long slides, custom grips, and many other things you see on bullseye guns are not legal for CMP EIC matches.

[dronning]

Also, I am completely confused by the word "Hardball". Some explain that it is a regular military 1911 straight out of a box...with no target gun design whatsoever. Some explain that the rounds have to be FMJ. Why hardball , and why not? Advice?

FYI - The CMP COO indicated the EIC rules (to be announced in Dec.) will change dramatically on what guns will be allowed for an EIC match.


As per CR10X search For a WADCUTTER gun. Talk to the Bullseye shooters near you get opinions on any guns that might be for sale chance are they know the gun and can give you feedback. Put the word out you are looking and they will come! <=== best option!

Your listed options:
1 - No - too much hassle possible risk in CA, (GT 45 is a great gun but I can't shoot the double stack grip well)
2 - No - many out of box 1911's are NOT a good base for building a BE gun.
3 - No - not all Colts are created equal, risky if you don't know what to look for - exception is one that is already built for BE - see #4
4 - Yes - but only if the Smith that did the work has a good reputation for building a Bullseye gun AND trigger.
5 - Yes - again only if the Smith has a good reputation for building a Bullseye gun AND trigger and as stated in another post the Springfield RO is a great value for a starting base.
5a - New "ground up" custom build - maybe - but I don't know the laws in CA regarding this option. It takes 6-18 months and is not cheap minimum $2,500- $3,500 on up!

As far as fit, any gun can be fit with very little work, don't sweat that issue.

- Dave

[Dipnet]

conradin,
I recommend patience, e.g., a little while ago, this pistol was for sale on the Bullseye forum: http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2643-wts- ... un-reduced

Actually, I don’t know if it sold, but this is where I would start for a bullseye gun—with somebody else who did the work in getting one put together. These guns are rarely used with hotter loads and you would have to shoot thousands and thousands of rounds to wear one out (now we’ll hear from all the folks who wore their’s out…).

Seriously, take your time and look around. You will enjoy the sport much more with a solid shooting tool. Cheers, dipnet

[Isabel1130]

conradin,
I recommend patience, e.g., a little while ago, this pistol was for sale on the Bullseye forum: http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2643-wts- ... un-reduced

Actually, I don’t know if it sold, but this is where I would start for a bullseye gun—with somebody else who did the work in getting one put together. These guns are rarely used with hotter loads and you would have to shoot thousands and thousands of rounds to wear one out (now we’ll hear from all the folks who wore their’s out…).

Seriously, take your time and look around. You will enjoy the sport much more with a solid shooting tool. Cheers, dipnet

Replacing a barrel on a pistol, is much less big of a deal than doing it on a rifle.

A good wad gun shooting target loads, with lead ammo, will shoot a long long time.

My recommendation is to try any gun before you buy it. 45's are to a great extent customized to the type of ammo a shooter is using, the length of their fingers, style of trigger etc.
If you think you might be looking for a stock range officer, then see if you can find a commercial range that stocks one as a rental gun. Shoot it a little.

Especially if you are in California, it might be a great idea to get one from local shooter.

[joel]

I think that in California, the Range Officer is not available as it is not on our roster. I'm thinking about getting one with the SSE that we have a mere 6 weeks left to do if I can find a willing dealer.

Joel

[beeser]

I purchased a Range Officer a couple of months ago and another 2 more recently and all of the cases they came in have a sticker that states "Not legal in California". I don't know the reason for it.

[joel]

I believe it is because they did not submit that particular model for testing to California DOJ. California really does suck with regards to gun laws (and others). Fortunately, we have the olympic gun exemption that covers most of the international style shooting guns.

Joel