Practicing Timed and Rapid Fire with an air pistol at 10m

[Sa-tevo]

Sharing some notes on using a Steyr LP50C for home practice. The Steyr is a 5 shot air pistol, and I have a 10 meter range set up in my basement that I use occasionally when I am not dry firing my Bullseye pistols. I wanted to simulate the targets as close as possible, so here is my data:

I started by comparing a NRA 25 Yard Slow Fire target with a NRA 25 Yard Timed and Rapid Fire target to get a ratio of the ring sizes so I could calculate the ring sizes for a 10 meter target for Timed and Rapid Fire use. For example, a B-16 10 ring is 1.51", a B-8 10 ring is 3.36", 2.23 times larger than the Slow Fire target. Being judiciously lazy, I only figured the ratios for the inner rings to the 8 ring.

What I found was that I could use a 10 meter NRA B-40 Air Pistol target for Slow and Timed/Rapid fire if I used these values:

B-40 10 ring = 11.5mm____ Timed/Rapid X ring = 12.65mm
B-40 9 ring = 27.5mm____ Timed/Rapid 10 ring = 25.65mm
B-40 7 ring = 59.5mm____ Timed/Rapid 9 ring = 58.58mm
B-40 5 ring = 91,5mm____ Timed/Rapid 8 ring = 90.92mm

Not an exact value equivalency, but pretty damn close and it saves me from having to mark up any targets. So a Timed/Rapid fire shot in the B-40 10 ring counts as an X, in the 9 ring counts as a 10, in the 7 ring counts as a 9, and in the 5 ring counts as a 8.

Next up was was using the range command recordings that can be found at http://www.bullseyepistol.com/rangecmd.htm or at http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1139-audi ... cyclopedia Good stuff from good folks.

My challenge is can I run a National Match course (Slow, Timed, Rapid) from a cold start and get good scores without any warm up shooting first. I've also noticed in Timed and Rapid fire that I can park five shots very close and scatter the other five all over a larger ring.

(Edited, now with visual aid)

[montster]

I do it a little different. Aeron 5 shot pistol. Red dot sight. For a target I use a 10 meter rifle target. Sight picture is in my eyes close to the 50 yard but a little smaller. If I can get all 5 shots in the black that is 9 ring or better approximately. That is my goal vs trying to establish a score. I am working on cadence/steps of the 5 shot plan. Trigger is set highest and is about 2 lbs. I have put a piece of foam behind trigger to get closer to 4 lb.

Someday I would like to figure out a budget 10 meter rotating target.

Haven't practiced with it at all this year. Rapid and Time are actually down slightly this year. I should get back to it as I thought it help me a lot last year..

[Rover]

I was fooling around shooting air rifle targets at distances closer than 10 meters with my AP.

I had all the rings vs scores computed and would score my targets.

After a while I realized this was silly; all I was really interested in was good grouping. I never looked back.

[Sa-tevo]

I was fooling around shooting air rifle targets at distances closer than 10 meters with my AP.

I had all the rings vs scores computed and would score my targets.

After a while I realized this was silly; all I was really interested in was good grouping. I never looked back.

Sounds like the backside of the target works for you.... no rings or black needed.

I was interested in some of the Bullseye practice drills at 10 meters. With a PCP pistol.

[Rover]

Actually, I use the bull because I want it as near a match as I can get. I just don't care about the score.

[Isabel1130]

Actually, I use the bull because I want it as near a match as I can get. I just don't care about the score.

The bull makes people do strange things. It is best to practice with a bull a goodly part of the time. Very easy to shoot good groups against a blank piece of paper. Your eye does not jump back and forth from the sights to the target. And you get less stalling on the trigger.

The only issue with my LP50 is my fingers are not long enough to successfully use the optional 45 grip on the gun. I have to use the anatomical grip, so when I switch to the slab grips on my bullseye guns, I really have to watch my grip.

[rigwhanson]

I have probably the best of all worlds with practicing with a LP-50. I have the trigger set at 2 1/2 and can go higher when I want. I also have a Sius target and can set it up with either the 50 or 25 NRA target for scoring and the program will size the scoring rings down to what ever you want to adjust for the actual distance so the scoring is correct. The target also calculates the group size that you would have at the actual full distance and where the group would be centered relative to the target center. I use the 10 meter air pistol mask for the NRA 25 yd targets and a mask for something else for the 50 yd NRA target. I have the target set at 10 meters and use a target reduction factor of 21% for the 50yd and 43% for the 25 yd target. If anyone is interested in what the mask is I use for 50 yd NRA targets at 10 meter I can find out. The setup is expensive but no more so than the pistol your shooting it with. It has helped my short line shooting considerably and is more fun than a barrel of monkeys to shoot on.

[Isabel1130]

I have probably the best of all worlds with practicing with a LP-50. I have the trigger set at 2 1/2 and can go higher when I want. I also have a Sius target and can set it up with either the 50 or 25 NRA target for scoring and the program will size the scoring rings down to what ever you want to adjust for the actual distance so the scoring is correct. The target also calculates the group size that you would have at the actual full distance and where the group would be centered relative to the target center. I use the 10 meter air pistol mask for the NRA 25 yd targets and a mask for something else for the 50 yd NRA target. I have the target set at 10 meters and use a target reduction factor of 21% for the 50yd and 43% for the 25 yd target. If anyone is interested in what the mask is I use for 50 yd NRA targets at 10 meter I can find out. The setup is expensive but no more so than the pistol your shooting it with. It has helped my short line shooting considerably and is more fun than a barrel of monkeys to shoot on.

My advice, if you are going to shoot bullseye with a dot, put the same dot on your LP50. Also, get the trigger weight up to at least 3.5 pounds.

Much easier to go lighter once you have good triggering skills. Harder to go up in weight.

[Sa-tevo]

My cocktail napkin, er... graph paper calculations show that the 8 ring on the 10 meter B-40 target is scaled to the 8 ring on a NRA B-6 50 yard target. That is what led me to my other calculations to have a scaled TF/RF target for 10 meter use.

A lot of this exercise was to keep all the terminology the same between the different ranges while doing progressive drills and other training programs.

[oldcaster]

There are targets made for 25 feet that work fine for air pistol. I think they are TQ6 and TQ7 and are small enough to fit in a normal pellet gun trap.

[oldcaster]

Someday I would like to figure out a budget 10 meter rotating target.

..

It would be fairly cheap to make a turning target system for a target that small. A servo like the ones that steer the little RC cars easily have enough power and an Arduino can supply the timing. If you add a wave shield, it can call the commands and turn the targets for the right amount of time. If I remember right an Arduino costs around $28 and a wave shield around the same. A transformer for power and a Servo plus simple wooden frame might run around $75. Check around and see if you can find someone who can solder one of these systems up and install the necessary sketch to operate. You might find someone who thinks it would be fun to make and has the capabilities and a lot of people can solder these kits together. If you want to do it yourself, check on the internet and you can figure it out for yourself. The hardest thing to do is write the sketch because there isn't much written about this although once you catch on, it is simple.

[jabberwo]

You don't have to guess, you can create scaled targets using SCATT desktop software: http://www.scatt.com/downloads/14/downloads/

-= Jab

[dronning]

You don't have to guess, you can create scaled targets using SCATT desktop software: http://www.scatt.com/downloads/14/downloads/

-= Jab

+1 and here is my most up to date list of targets available for the SCATT software - it has most of the NRA targets too.

[waxman]

oldcaster is correct- A target turner for airgun targets could be built fairly inexpensively, but as always, quantity is everything as far as cost goes.
One system could cost many hundreds, but with sufficient interest and demand, the cost could be very reasonable ($150-$250). Options could include wireless downrange control, and voice commands.
I've built target turners using the Arduino microcontroller, and would like to hear if there's interest in an airgun version.
PM me if interested!
John