Anchutz 1913 with bleiker action?

[TheNutBehindTheBut]

I am 18 and have been shooting for many years and currently shoot a .22 1913 anchutz super match with a luija barrel.
I have however noticed an increase in use of bleiker rifles in competitions such as the Olympics etc.
I am considering whether dropping the bleiker action into my current rifle but unsure whether this would be worth the 3,000 I would have to spend.
I shoot 50m prone and average is 197.
Any guidance would be appreciated.

[svensta]

Bleiker use lilja barrels anyhow.

Suppose it comes down to if you want the action positioned in a way that stops
you moving around when reloading and you can maintain your body position.
That seems to be the advantage of the Blieker over it's more traditional rivals.

Assuming you have a wooden stock this combination is used by a number of top shooters.
Just look for images of Cassio Rippel. Will the Bleiker make you a better marksman? No!
is it pointing to the future of top small bore target rile design? Probably.

I average above 195 (usually) using a BSA Martini Mk5 and the only adjustable things on that rifle are the sling mount and sights
I would say get the bleiker if you want to turn 10.2's into 10.8's. Most people are just looking to hit a 10.

[TheNutBehindTheBut]

Thank you very much.
I have noticed Brazils Casio Ripple was using the setup I am wanting
But you also see the likes of Sergei Martinov who uses a stock 1913 supermatch.
I have a problem with reloading in the way I am having to lift my arm in order to reload which I suspect may be effecting my results.
Would a bleiker action resolve this?

[justadude]

One general answer is that depending on the amount of work you want to do, you can probably get the Bleiker fitted into a 1913 stock.

If you were shooting 199+ and truly at 50m (not 50m reduced to something less) I would say it might be worth it. Overall you are likely better off putting the money for the barreled action and then the additional time and money to get it bedded to your current stock into a couple of cases of training ammo and improving your skills and technique.

'Dude

[Tim S]

Bleikers are reportedly very good actions, and use the same Lilja barrel that you have on your 1913. However before you spend what is a very large amount of money, ask yourself whether your current rifle is holding you back? Are you failing to make finals in high level competitions, by small margins? Do you have difficulty in finding good ammunition for your Anschutz? What sort of groups do you get during testing? Remember that many of the shooters in World Cup matches and at the Olympics are professionals, so the expense would be justified when/if they win medals, additionally their equipment may be provided/subsidized by their national federation.

Be aware that the Bleiker will not "drop into" a 1913 stock; the Bleiker is flat base action, and is longer and wider than your 1913. Your 1913 stock would need to have the bedding area completely routed out/new bolt handle slot cut to take a Bleiker. This can (and has) been done, but it's likely to be a professional job, and probably not a cheap one. This is a cost you'll need to factor into your budget. If you want to use your 1913 barrel in the same stock afterwards, you'll need an adaptor block to do so.

Of course is money is no object, and you just want a Bleiker, then have at it. Personally I'd like one of Eric Uptagrafft's actions, but this would either require a very large sum of money or illegal acts.

[TheNutBehindTheBut]

Thank you for all your help I have had numerous batch tests done on my rifle and have
An amazing set of ammunition.
I am aware of the required to do the action as I have been told the current action is round and
The bleiker is flat.
shooting the new aluminium bleiker in testing I shot an average of 198 which I
Would say is reasonable but I hated the stock.
This is the reason why rather than buy the rifle i would rather get the action.
But again unsure if it would actually make a big difference if people could vote that would be great because then if have a dodo native answer.
Although I aware it is not as straight forward as " yeah go for it".
Again thank you for responses.

[Tim S]

Your question boils down to "should I spend over $3,000 for an extra 3 points per match, and slightly easier loading?".

If you can afford it, it's your money.

Oh just to clarify, when I wrote about fitting a Bleiker acxtion into a 1913 stock, I had in mind that you have a wood stock. If you have the aluminium 1918 Precise stock, you will need to allow for a new stock. I believe that the 1918 Precise stock is too narrow to accept the Bleiker. However you can fit the Bleiker into the 2018 Precise (for the square action 2013 Anschutz) as this is slightly wider.

[TheNutBehindTheBut]

It is the wooden stock.
And the reason for it though is I am unsure if I would be able to
Obtain these extra three points and onwards without the new action.
Is the extra advancement in my shooting going to be possible without the
New action.
Sorry if I seem like a spoilt brat I have saved the money and by no stretch
Am I in the money is no object section.
But I am desperate to go far in my chosen area.
And just wondering whether this would allow my continued advancement.
Again thank you for all the help.

[rmarsh]

My daughter has been shooting a Bleiker for a few months now. She is rather short & petite, the position of the loading port is a big plus for her. In prone & kneeling she has much less movement compared to her previous anschutz. In standing she can easily load without setting the rifle on the the stand, that is impossible for her with the anschutz. The loading port is around 2 inches further back.

Another plus for her is accuracy. I know there are lots of anschutz and other rifles out there that shoot great. I have gone through several anschtz, & a Walther, plus several custom barrels trying to find a highly accurate gun / ammo combination. At a recent test at Eley, TX, the worst group from the bleiker was better than the best group from all the other rifles / barrels I have ever tested. (And I have tested a bunch of them!)

So far..... our experience with bleiker has been very positive.

[TheNutBehindTheBut]

Thank you very much :)
The trigger group in my rifle if on the way out
So I am going to wait until this needs replacing and then possibly
Change to bleiker action.
My theory being that I can pare the barrel I already have on my rifle
With the new action
And use the new barrel on one of my other anchutz super matches
Which for me makes the price a little bit better.

[Tim S]

Putting the 1913 barel onto the Bleiker, and putting the Bleiker barrel onto a different Anschutz seems a slightly cockeyed way to do things. Would it not be simpler to keep the Bleiker with it's original barrel (a Lilja as on your 1913), and to swap the defective 1913 trigger for a functioning trigger from one from your spare Anschutz (assuming that it's also a 5018)? Once you start swapping barrels you need to budget for the gunsmithing costs, for shortening and rechambering both barrels as Anschutz and Bleiker breech dimensions are very different; the Bleiker has the barrel seated about twice as deep as the Anschutz, it is threaded where the Anschutz is a press fit (unless the gunsmith threaded the Anschutz so when fitting the Lilja), and the Bleiker receiver forms part of the chamber. There is also the risk that neither barrel will perform quite as well as before after rechambering.

If you are worried about costs, why not sell one of your spare Anschutzes?

[Metookevin]

I have owned a Bleiker for a number of years & although I have not tested to generate group results I know it is far more accurate than previously owned FWB's or an Anschutz. I often describe the experience as point, click, 10. I have been involved in smallbore target shooting since 1978.

A point I wish to make is that the whole package of action with barrel is an essential ingredient in recommending Bleiker. I don't see the point of investing in this scenario if you only buy an action minus barrel. Yes they are lilja barrels but in this case the important benefit from a complete package is superior groups that generate better feedback to the target shooting procedures & technique. A complete package also means there is clear responsibility if performance is less than it should be. Obviously Bleiker has internal manufacturing processes one could only speculate on to ensure a high standard.

Another factor to consider is quality of ammo. I have some very old batches of Eley match that are too tight to chamber and to persist would break something, I wonder sometimes if those shooters who experienced broken bolts were using variable rimfire ammo. I have no problems with current batches of Eley Match or Tenex.

Cheers

[justadude]

OK Nut'

I am quoting one of your last posts so I can review all the pieces:

Thank you very much :)
The trigger group in my rifle if on the way out
So I am going to wait until this needs replacing and then possibly
Change to bleiker action.
My theory being that I can pare the barrel I already have on my rifle
With the new action
And use the new barrel on one of my other anchutz super matches
Which for me makes the price a little bit better.

First the basics, the Anschutz 54 action has been around now for 60 years, the Bleiker that I am aware of more than 5 and less than 10. The Anschutz requires a long reach to load, the Bleiker does not. The Bleiker receiver is very stiff and stable compared to the Anschutz. The Bleiker bolt is more robust and sturdy. I can think of no rational argument that would say the Bleiker is not the better action. However: Bleikers are really expensive and regardless of cost you cannot buy points. If you really want a Bleiker then figure out the finances a buy a Bleiker. Your various scenarios of buying parts and then starting some kind of swapping plan that needs a scorecard to follow is likely to buy you numerous headaches and quite probably an inferior rifle from where you are now.

You mention the trigger on your current rifle is on the way out. Without looking at it myself it is hard to know what about it is "on the way out" the 5018 trigger is not all that complex. What is it doing to indicate to you that it is on the way out? Have you had it to a gunsmith for a tuneup? A whole new 5018 trigger should still be in the under $500 range and swaps out with 2 screws. For all the steps in your plan I would buy a new trigger (assuming yours is truly bad) and a case of ammo and get my butt to the range on a regular basis. You will likely be way ahead dollar and performance wise in the end.

In your first post you said you were averaging 197 at 50m. Assuming this is a true 50m distance, while the performance is solid, in the grand scheme of top prone shooting 197 is just a score but won't get you anything. Work on getting that to 199.5/200 with your current equipement, then worry about a Bleiker.

'Dude

[rmarsh]

I agree with Dude, if you are going to go Bleiker then go Bleiker. If you prefer the wooden Anschutz stock that is fine, but I would leave the barreled action alone. Building a highly accurate rifle is more than just the action. It is the combination of action, barrel and to some degree stock. Although, with a quality stock, properly bedded to the action, the stock should be neutral.

Bleiker will ship you a barreled action they guarantee will shoot well. If it does not, they will rework it until it does. If you get in a perfectly fine barreled action, pull the barrel off it and put on another barrel, all that is out the window. You are very unlikely to improve on the barrel from Bleiker, and very well could end up worse, possibly much worse.

Also as Dude pointed out, between a Bleiker and Anschutz, the barrels are mounted entirely different. In both cases, the chamber end of the barrel would have to be cut off, a new chamber cut and then fitted to the action. I understand you are trying to save a little money and maybe you are "thinking out loud" here on this thread. BUT, it makes no sense to take a perfectly good Bleiker barrel off and fit it to an Anschutz action, and take a perfectly good Anschutz barrel off and fit it to a Bleiker action.

In the end, will a Bleiker pick up points for you? Maybe. Maybe not. There have been a lot of medals won with Anschutz rifles and I expect there will be a lot more.

[justadude]

It was Tim S that pointed out the difference in barrel mounting. I was musing over what the trigger might be doing to indicate it is going away.

rmarsh puts it well, Anschutz will still win a lot more medals before they are done.

Dude

[Metookevin]

Thank you very much.
I have noticed Brazils Casio Ripple was using the setup I am wanting
But you also see the likes of Sergei Martinov who uses a stock 1913 supermatch.
I have a problem with reloading in the way I am having to lift my arm in order to reload which I suspect may be effecting my results.
Would a bleiker action resolve this?

The comment about reloading & lifting your arm may or may not change with a Bleiker. I can reload with my Bleiker with butt in the shoulder but still have to lift my right elbow off the mat to fit cartridge into loading port. Previously this was not possible with other smallbore rifles in my case so I gained a clear benefit.

You may consider trying to assess if it is possible to reload with your stated aim of not lifting your arm/elbow in the scenario of using a Bleiker, ie get someone to operate bolt with you in position & also approximate the position of Bleiker bolt handle & loading port. Assess if there is a measurable benefit.

I would agree fewer variables are better in the shooting process but sometimes it doesn't always pan out that way.

Cheers

[KennyB]

I have noticed Brazils Casio Ripple was using the setup I am wanting
But you also see the likes of Sergei Martinov who uses a stock 1913 supermatch.

Just for clarity - in the pictures I've seen, Cassio Ripple is using a wooden stock that takes a 20 series flat bottomed action - which would be a lot simpler to fit a Blieker action into than a 19 series round bottomed stock like yours.

As others have said, buying a Bleiker just to take the barrel off and put another in it's place is just foolishness. Better to find a stock that the Bleiker will drop into (Grunig for example) and which you feel comfortable with - and commit to it.

There is a rumour that Martynov has now gone over to a Bleiker.

BTW - I have an tricked out old Anschutz which shoots as well as my friend's Bleiker in testing at Eley and I regularly beat him and many other Bleiker users. My advice to anyone who asks is to spend your money on a training system like SCATT or NOPTEL if you haven't already - and work on your wind strategy...

Just my 2¢.

Ken.

[remmy223]

Sergey's new Bleiker






http://imageshack.com/a/img540/633/7iWJju.jpg

[justadude]

That's cool!

I notice he has grafted his old Anschutz butt plate to it.

Dude

[Tim S]

That's cool!

I notice he has grafted his old Anschutz butt plate to it.

Dude

And the sights too by the look of it.

I did notice that the butt looks much shorter. He had the butt on his 1913 would almost all the way out, but the Bleiker looks to be only an inch or so. I doubt that the Bleiker is that much longer than a 1913 as standard.