Daisy 499 help

[Coycaller]

New to the forum and I have skimmed the threads on 499s and am wanting more information. Specifically on how to improve accuracy and more importantly reliability. My daughter is shooting in the 350s and my son and other daughter in the 340s. I've decided that they are doing there part and now it is my turn to help them by improving there equipment. In the last 4H match my son was shooting his prone sighters, hitting 9s and 10s, when all of the sudden a 7 at 1/ o'clock. Then a 10 then a 7 again. My son is super solid in prone and calls his shots well. He said all of the shots should have hit 10 or 6 o'clock 9s, so we switched guns. His sister's gun shot a 94 prone, 89 offhand, then she went to sitting and shot 2 10s on her left sighter. The third shot went twelve o'clock out of the sighter box just below the #6 bull then it went back to normal. She ended up with an 83 even with the -10 on bull 6. It cost her the sitting position medal and also match winner. I'm tired of these guns penalizing the kids. They practice hard and then the gun doesn't do its job. I need some tips to help eliminate some of these problems.

[AWeinhold]

there is quite a bit of variation in BB diameter. Using a Starrett micrometer you can detect BBs from .172 - .175 in a typical package of Avanti's. The small BBs can easily stray into the 6 ring. Typical shot tube diameter is about .175. BB's that are .174 fly pretty straight. Measuring can be tricky because some BBs are not round.
Shot tube tension must be consistent. A change of 1/8 of a turn in the shot tube can move the impact point 2 scoring rings.
The rule book says parts can be honed or polished. Polish the compression chamber so it is round and smooth for consistent velocity.
Keep the shot tube clean and free of oil or grease that can migrate from the compression chamber. Never put oil in a 499.
The plastic cone that holds the shot tube can easily crack. Never use a tool to tighten a shot tube. Hand snug is all you need. The shot tube should fit down against the barrel shroud and stay snug. I usually put tape around it to keep it there.

[Coycaller]

Thanks for the information. Where would I get one of these micrometers? All I have is a regular dial micrometer.

I know that some kids have been frustrated and have quit BB gun because of the issues with the 499 and have gone on to spotter and precision air rifle. They then become frustrated in those disciplines because that can't win because they aren't big enough to handle the larger rifles. Couple that with lack of experience and we have kids quitting that have a lot of potential.

I will do the things you mentioned and post our results in a day or two.

Thanks, Adam

[AWeinhold]

I bought my micrometer on ebay, get one that measures in inch rather than metric. I should have mentioned that the 499s just take a lot of maintenance. They can drive you crazy trying to keep them around the 10 ring. One of the clubs out here just lines their kids up behind their 2 best guns. We order 6 extra shot tubes each year for testing. Just in case Daisy comes out with a batch of really good ones. I expect all of our guns to shoot in the black, but a 10 ring gun is precious.
The triggers will require some work. Here is all there is to learn about trigger work:
http://www.txsmith.net/4hshooting/bbgun_trigger.html

[Coycaller]

I did the trigger work on the rifle. It is a big improvement. I went a little far on one of the steps but it still works great.

[Andre]

I'm also into machining, have two lathes and a mill. Would it be a good idea for me to make a BB sizing anvils for a micrometer?

[AWeinhold]

I would be interested to see what you come up with. It is tough to rotate the bb to check more than one diameter. some of the bbs are out of round. seems to me that a drop thru gauge would be faster. I have not checked all the available brands for a couple of years. Please post some results if do the work.

A true match grade BB would solve a lot of problems if they were all .174
I did some experimenting with .177 ball bearings and they shot great once I was able to polish out a shot tube that size. They cost a dime each, not much compared to the gas to drive to a match. But they might not be allowed at all matches.

[Andre]

I would be interested to see what you come up with. It is tough to rotate the bb to check more than one diameter. some of the bbs are out of round. seems to me that a drop thru gauge would be faster. I have not checked all the available brands for a couple of years. Please post some results if do the work.

A true match grade BB would solve a lot of problems if they were all .174
I did some experimenting with .177 ball bearings and they shot great once I was able to polish out a shot tube that size. They cost a dime each, not much compared to the gas to drive to a match. But they might not be allowed at all matches.

Careful with using hardened steel ball bearings, as they will eventually swage your bore to a larger diameter.

I will look into making a bb sizing gauge, is it okay in your opinion to use a comparative sizing not actual measurement for sizing them? Like rim thickness gauges tell you a number instead of the actual thickness.

[AWeinhold]

Comparative should work. There are a lot of coaches that just listen to the BB as it slides down the shot tube. A nice tight fitting BB can take 2 full seconds to drop. Here is what I found in 2009:

Size variations of various new (2009) BBs
Daisy Premium #0040 (sorted 150) Avanti BBs (sorted 100)
.171 – 3% .171 – 1%
.172 – 16% .172 – 9%
.173 – 74% .173 – 64%
.174 – 7% .174 – 26%

[Andre]

Comparative should work. There are a lot of coaches that just listen to the BB as it slides down the shot tube. A nice tight fitting BB can take 2 full seconds to drop. Here is what I found in 2009:

Size variations of various new (2009) BBs
Daisy Premium #0040 (sorted 150) Avanti BBs (sorted 100)
.171 – 3% .171 – 1%
.172 – 16% .172 – 9%
.173 – 74% .173 – 64%
.174 – 7% .174 – 26%

Looks like the magic .174 falls into a lower percentile than one would hope.
I'll go down to the basement and make a prototype, if it works out should I post a thread about it?

I just picked up a vintage woolworths "handy" micrometer that will become the test subject...

[txwhitetailhunter]

As a 4-H coach myself, I have run into many issues myself, both at practice and at matches. As previously stated, the secret of mic'ing BB's is a big portion of the problem, but not all. After unofficial testing sessions, I seem to have come to the conclusion that the actual bb diameter is not that important. What is important is that the BB is round under .001 mic'd run out in 4-5 places. Also, the discard of any BB that has a flaw (good lighting for inspection is a must). Sorting to keep similar sized BB's together will help. It seems that just like any ammo, some containers have better consistency than others. Finding the "medium" and consistent size in a container of BB"s is the key. Do not get hung up on "needing" them to all be a certain size. Remember, this is a smoothbore gun. The BB rides on a cushion of air, not rifling. If the BB is flawed or out of round, it will touch the side of the shot tube and put the BB into a spin, once that happens and the BB leaves the barrel, it is anyone's guess as to where it lands. Second point, there was an issue for a couple years with the plunger spring. Daisy has remedied the issue and replacement assemblies are readily available from them. The issue was that the spring was too strong and inconsistent. This caused too high and too erratic of the muzzle velocity. If you take one apart, a sure tell tale sign is the plastic plunger is black. The replacements have a white plunger. Upon reassembly, lightly lube the plastic plunger. This only needs done once at the time of assembly. As previously stated, do not oil or lube anything else on the 499. Also, above several folks chipped in some good and valuable info.
Hope this helps, and best of luck to you.