Why Can't I Buy a Steyr LP10 Long?

Silvershooter · Post by **Silvershooter** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:38 am

SamEE

The gun we use? Morini short barrel - with short sight radius.

Do you remove the rear sight extension ?

The Morini short is not much so much lighter than the standard, unless there is a big saving from removing the rear sight extension ?

SamEEE · Post by **SamEEE** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:02 am

As provided per spec from factory. The grip is less bulky and weighty and the balance is more rearward so less effort to point.

nick marshall · Post by **nick marshall** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:23 am

The long and the short Morini 162ei.
Sight radius is identical on both guns.
Also front sight can be moved back on both.

Scrench · Post by **Scrench** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:10 pm

OK. I am a 480/600 average shooter wanting to improve into the 500's, and my PR of 499 was set with my IZH46 which has full-length sights of 365mm. I just bought an LP10, and since you say that I'm not competent enough to be using sights that long, what length should I adjust it to?

Scrench

SamEEE · Post by **SamEEE** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:00 pm

Scrench wrote:OK. I am a 480/600 average shooter wanting to improve into the 500's, and my PR of 499 was set with my IZH46 which has full-length sights of 365mm. I just bought an LP10, and since you say that I'm not competent enough to be using sights that long, what length should I adjust it to?

Scrench

If you managed to shoot 500 with an archaic spring gun I think you're more than qualified for a long LP10!
What might help to start is to open up the rear sight notch a bit. Larger acceptable cone of sight picture. Only a little bit, and as you get better close it down again. Give it 4 months of hard training - if you don't break 510 by then Pilk will probably be able to hook you up with a short barrel and shroud.

Also bear in mind that you might be shooting a little worse because it's a different gun and it might be set up completely different to the IZH46. It'll take time to get used to.

If you have trouble aligning the sights just cancel the shot and start again - don't build a bad habit here of accepting a mediocre sight picture - i've been there and got the tshirt. It's a crappy tshirt.

When I was shooting around 500 I struggled most with sight picture and specialist strength. I kept accepting a crappy sight picture - the longer you reward crappy behavior the longer it will persist.

I can recommend you read Warren Potters "The Hitchhikers Guide To Shooting Glory."
Link: http://www.pilkguns.com/hhg.shtml

Start with "Training for International 10 Metre Air Pistol" and "Dry Fire Training". I must warn you that dryfiring can be soul crushingly boring to start with but after awhile it gets better - stick with it.

There are a couple more resources on dryfiring - one by Tom Redhead who was apparently a UK National Pistol coach. He prefaces his dryfiring article by saying "The Pistol Shooters Key To Improved Scores"
http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/Tom_R ... Advice.pdf

Maybe mix in a bit of mental training into the bunch:
http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/Tom_R ... aining.pdf
http://www.targetshooting.ca/docs/LINDA ... syched.pdf - Probably the best single article I read at around 500pt mark.

It's not really about the gun at all, but rather it is an extension of yourself. It will do exactly what you tell it to do.

Good shooting.

nick marshall wrote:The long and the short Morini 162ei.
Sight radius is identical on both guns.
Also front sight can be moved back on both.

Yeah, nah, not these ones. Photo below.

Edited: For Clarity + photo.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:11 am

SamEEE wrote: If you managed to shoot 500 with an archaic spring gun I think you're more than qualified for a long LP10!

Hope this isn't overly pedantic... but perhaps we ought to be more or less accurate when discussing the attributes and nature of particular airguns, since this is an airgun topic involving sometimes subtle differences between particular models. The IZH-46 is hardly archaic, but I'll let that slide. It's CERTAINLY not a 'spring gun' by any stretch, it's a single stroke pneumatic (SSP) pistol, differing from a PCP primarily in that air pressure is introduced by the cocking of a lever rather than by pre-filling the cylinder. But it's still pre-compressed air, no spring nor large piston is in motion at the time of the shot. Just a small valve opening and letting some high pressure air escape. And in expert hands the 46 is capable of shooting well above 550, so not really a heroic effort to get one's scores above 500 with that pistol, just a matter of proper training and persistence as with any other match pistol.

SamEEE · Post by **SamEEE** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:33 am

Gerard wrote: Hope this isn't overly pedantic...

No, that's fair. I'll concede the point that a 46 is capable of fine accuracy. Spring-gun was wrong, yes. I once saw a guy shoot 560-570ish with one, it looked hard.

Tools don't make a carpenter, but crappy tools make the job harder.

For the money they are an okay introduction to the sport when there is no infrastructure based around the sport (ie. club guns.). If I could avoid SSP, I would, but 500 vs 2500 dollars for a newbie might be pretty hard to weigh up if they are not even sure they like the sport.

Have to pinch myself occasionally to tell myself I am lucky to have done my shooting apprenticeship on some of the best gear with good beginner coaching structure to succeed.

Edited: Clarity.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:41 am

Fair enough. I have to say that Rover nothwithstanding, it's fun to be able to buy premium equipment for myself. Now if only my nasty elbow would fully heal and let me practice more than half an hour at a time, a couple of times per week... Sure would be nice to get busy making my K12 score halfway decently again.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:15 am

While I understand Scott's logic, I must say that I have never seen a short barrel in my life until well after I started to shoot AP. I have never shot anything in my life, so all I saw were others who shot long barrels of all sort. When I saw advertisements for the short barrels I presume they were for 12 years old.

I tend to believe that if you know you will commit to the sport for life, then you should buy the most commonly used best pistol available that you know will be competitive for a long time (decades). Then stick with it as long as possible, for life ideally. Every adjustment you make will affect your pistol from the moment you adjusted it. Customize your grip. Tiny changes. You grow old with it. I have no intention to quit the sport after I almost quit after the first month, and after that I decided to get the commonly available best pistol that I know will be around for a long time. I upgraded to an electronic version recently only because my other two arms are also electronic, so it makes things easier. But essentially it is the same pistol.

However, I see nothing wrong with people starting with FWB65, FWB10x, Benelli Kite Junior, IZH46M and all sort of short barrel arms if they are not 100% sure this is what they want. However, price is a big factor. If the long barrel is not that much expensive than a short barrel then it makes selling a used short barrel a hard thing to do if the person quit the sport. Meanwhile a person who quit the sport selling a long barrel usually can recoup a good amount. That is my guess.

Since I have no experience in short barrel, the comparison is my FP. I frequently practice with my Haemmerli 100 in FP for consecutive sessions, and then I would use the Morini once in awhile. Everytime that happens I seemed to improve. Meanwhile continuing using the Morini in each session did not improve as well. The Haemmerli 100 is more forgiving, the Morini CM84E is super accurate. The Morini's barrel is at least 4 inches longer than my Haemmerli.

My two pellets.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:10 am

Back when I was "hot", I used to shoot in the 570s with a FWB 90 spring gun and stock grips. I shot my first 100 with that gun.

Of course, then, I didn't have the 'net to tell me it couldn't be done; that I needed a well farkled Deutsches Loudenboomer or I'd shrivel and die.

Oh, the agony of a mis-spent youth!

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:14 am

SamEEE wrote:Tools don't make a carpenter, but crappy tools make the job harder.

Very true.

mark e · Post by **mark e** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:21 am

Hi All
I'm not a competitive shooter, as a matter of fact compared with some of you guys I would have to get better to suck, but I enjoy my time shooting.
I have an Aeron B-96, an FWB P-34 and my latest, I got about a year ago Steyr LP-10E long ( bucket list gun )
Just to hold my Steyr gives me great joy, and to shoot it to me is almost euphoric, I don't understand why Scott would want to forbid someone that feeling.
I understand his concern and value his opinion but in the end it's his opinion.. If he would have forced me into a short I would have always wondered "what if " and although It would shoot for me as nice as the long I would know in the back of my mind I wanted the long and in this game a lot of it is mental

I'm 51 years old, my eye sight sucks and I still enjoy my time shooting,why would anyone think they have any right to tell me what I can and can not shoot..

that's my feelings on the matter.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:52 am

mark e wrote:I don't understand why Scott would want to forbid someone that feeling.

He doesn't. As I understand his comments he is still supplying the long/standard version into the retail network and even suggesting that you buy one there.

He is simply saying that he won't sell you one directly.

You have the freedom of choice to buy one; you do not have a right to buy one specifically from him. He has the freedom of choice not to sell you one; he does not have the right to say you are not allowed to buy one anywhere (so he doesn't).

That sounds like a win/win situation to me, everybody gets what they are entitled to.

mark e · Post by **mark e** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:19 am

when I tried to buy one from him he just said " NO " as well as making me feel like dirt and a second or even third class Citizen, and talking down to me like I was wasting his time and bothering him ... he did not explain his policy or why ... when he hung up on me I was wondering what the heck just happened.
I do hope one day someone with something he really wants does the same thing to him that he did to me.

NOTE TO READERS: I have evidence that this poster is a liar and troll, please see my response later in this thread, Scott Pilkington

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:21 pm

shaky hands wrote:
So, what are
1) the initial qualifications of a buyer that would make him/her eligible for a free gun? At what level of experience in air pistol/other shooting disciplines will the line be drawn? (One of the top air pistol shooters in the world, Joao Costa reportedly began shooting air only after becoming a great free pistol shooter.)
2) what are the matches that would be accepted for the qualification purposes for an adult civilian non-collegiate shooter? Only National Championships? How about NRA sectionals? Desert Midwinter? State matches? Logistics of traveling to Fort Benning, clearly unrelated to shooting prowess, could be too much for many adult shooters with no aspirations to make Olympics or the National team (which one couldn't make with 555 or 560, anyway).

So, Scott, any responses to the inquiry? I am one of those failed Bullseye competitors that you referred to in passing as those who made you adopt your new policy. I have never owned an air gun, never shot in an airgun competition, but wanted to get on the wagon at some point (though, admittedly I know which end of a free pistol is a business one). The offer is tantalizing but the devil is in details. Care to clarify them?

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:44 pm

Back in the day....

viewtopic.php?t=7971

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:36 pm

Rover wrote:Back in the day....

viewtopic.php?t=7971

And the point being?..

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:47 pm

shaky hands wrote:
Rover wrote:Back in the day....

viewtopic.php?t=7971
And the point being?..

Looks to me a lot like he's suggesting there is nothing wrong with a shorter barrel. Got to say, the more heated aspects of this discussion sound a lot like a loud muh freedums sort of complaint. As though we each had a right to buy what we want to buy, from whomsoever we wished to but it. Real life isn't quite like that. Pilk has made a decision for himself. Is that so terrible? If you don't like his decision, shop elsewhere. As he suggests.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:48 pm

(Double post somehow. Weird, I only clicked once.)

shaky hands · Post by **shaky hands** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:03 pm

Gerard wrote: Looks to me a lot like he's suggesting there is nothing wrong with a shorter barrel. Got to say, the more heated aspects of this discussion sound a lot like a loud muh freedums sort of complaint. As though we each had a right to buy what we want to buy, from whomsoever we wished to but it. Real life isn't quite like that. Pilk has made a decision for himself. Is that so terrible? If you don't like his decision, shop elsewhere. As he suggests.

Yet my question was not technical, but about the deal itself. How do I know if I like his decision if I don't exactly know what the deal is. As Bickar pointed out the deal can hardly be expected to be without "fine print". I am trying to figure it out, see the questions in my post above.

TargetTalk

Why Can't I Buy a Steyr LP10 Long?

Owned both