Pistol Too Loud - What is Minimum Usable Velocity?

[Scrench]

Hi Everyone,

I'm really enjoying the LP10 I just got, but It's too loud. I silenced the trap with a pound of duct seal, but the gun is just too much for the family with kids who play in the driveway 30' from where I practice, on the other side of a 6' cedar fence. My IZH 46 is noiseless compared to it.

This leaves me with lowering the velocity for less noise, and I'm wondering how much I could lower it without measurably effecting the difficulties I already have in holding on-target. Currently it is shooting R-10's at 533 fps, Vogels at 484 fps. My PR of 499 was shot with my IZH 46 which shoots Vogels an average of 367 fps, so I'm used to shooting a slower gun, and as a byproduct, that really encourages a solid follow-thru. But that low velocity (without considering all the other reasons) may be part of the reason I haven't broken into the 500's yet (I know...more practice). On the other hand, I appreciate the fact that faster velocities can make the difference in that millisecond of wandering between the 9 and 7 ring, and want to keep as much velocity as possible.

I know this is going to take some trial and error on my part to see what decibel level I (and my neighbors) can live with, but I just wanted to get some opinions on "how slow is too slow".


One other option: the seller graciously provided me with a Nygord compensator which allows me to take off the shroud and bolt it right on to the end of the barrel, hopefully saving weight as well. Would this make any and if so, what differences?

Thank you for your experienced and expert replies.

Scrench

[Gerard]

Keeping more weight out front should help reduce wobble slightly and damp the negative effects of triggering errors, as you may have noticed with the more front-heavy 46m. Seems likely that heavier, front-biased weight might have helped in your personal best score with that pistol. I'm surprised to see your 46m shooting so slowly. Mine has never been a top performer, but it shoots most match type pellets at between about 430fps and 460fps. Perhaps it's time for some new seals and regular oiling in yours? Anyway, by all means try the lighter front end on the Steyr if you like, but don't expect it to do more than slightly extend the comfortable period in which you can hold the black. But you shouldn't be holding too long anyway. get your shots off within 5 to 7 seconds or wobbles will inevitably come to lower your score.

When I had a Pardini K10 I tried it at various velocities, for exactly this reason. The thing was too loud when I got it. Didn't have a Chrony at the time so I just recorded the valve adjustment position and then gradually reduced it until the volume was tolerable for home practice. When I did eventually get a Chrony F-1, I tested the range for that pistol and found it could shoot as slowly as about 430fps and as fast as about 575fps. I had settled on about 460fps for home use as it turned out. At that velocity the accuracy seemed no different than at what turned out to be 530fps as I received it from the seller, no significant difference in sight adjustment even. Any slower than that and it seemed the pellet was in the barrel slightly too long on those shots where my triggering was not very graceful, so errors would be amplified.

My current Pardini K12 came from the factory set at about 450fps, but with use it gradually climbed to about 465fps. It's not making an unpleasantly loud bang when shooting at that speed, and the recoil absorber function works well there, so that's how fast I shoot it. I know from various postings here that it is fairly common in Europe to shoot 10m AP at between 520fps and 570fps, but this is both annoyingly loud and unnecessarily wasteful of air pressure, forcing one to fill the cylinders too frequently. Not a big deal with tanks, but with a hand pump that's more work than I want to do, especially with the noise level being worse anyway.

I know some of the overlever pistols such as the FAS 604 shoot quite slowly, that model shooting around 400fps I think, yet can yield very consistent results on target with a good shooter. I'd suggest adjusting yours until you don't mind the sound, then monitor your results over some weeks to see if your average has changed, then adjust upwards if necessary.

[william]

I don't know if this qualifies as expert advice, but it does come from experience.

Invite your neighbor(s) to a shooting session in your yard. Explain and show them what you're doing, and invite them to participate if they like. My guess is once they see that you're no threat to them, they'll be OK with it even if the noise is a bit more than they might prefer. It's better than letting their imaginations work on what you're up to. And by all means avoid times when somebody might be trying to sleep.

[Brian Girling]

Place a sound deadening panel either side of your firing point at pistol height from your wrist forward. Two 3 foot square panels covered in a soft foam on the inner side should suffice.

[Scrench]

Gerard,

I have the original IZH 46, not the 46M, because I couldn't tolerate the nose-heaviness of the full 46M, hence the difference in speed. I was thinking of trying the 440-460 range for R-10's. But since the Vogels are already at 484, I don't know if I want to drop below 400 or so for them. I guess deciding on one pellet to use (7g. vs 8.2g) would help simplify this problem. I use both because I use the gun for 10m and silhouette.

William,

My neighbors do know what I'm up to, in fact the one behind me allows me to place my 45 yard ram for silhouette (rifles) on his property. He doesn't care. The one on the side with the kids has been in my yard with his dad and both tried their hands at silhouette. They don't mind my shooting, understand I'm not a threat, and know that I practice to compete. It's his kids that seem to jump and get nervous whenever that loud crack goes off. 5 little ones age 2-7, 4 girls. I've tried to not practice when they are in the yard, but they are always there, and are home-schooled.

Brian,

That's a good idea I never thought of. Taking it a little farther, maybe a big box to contain the noise from the upper vents as well.

Thanks for the replies!

Scrench

[Gerard]

I guess deciding on one pellet to use (7g. vs 8.2g) would help simplify this problem. I use both because I use the gun for 10m and silhouette.

Sorry, overlooked that it was a 46, not a 46m. I'd suggest making a note of where your velocity is set for home use and practicing with that, and making a note of where you set velocity for silhouette so you can easily go back and forth. Not being familiar with the workings of the Steyr I'm not sure how simple it is to adjust back and forth of course. With the Pardini I just bored a hole from the area of the web of my hand so that I can use a screwdriver to adjust velocity if I wish, a tiny hole also at the right hand side for the Allen key to loosen the set screw on the velocity adjuster. Strangely this set screw butted directly against the threads of the adjuster, marring them when tightened, so I added in a small delrin plug in front of the set screw and that problem is solved. If your velocity adjustment is harder to get to then I can see how settling on one velocity would be desirable... and I suppose you'd be stuck with the higher velocity, to push the heavier pellets out fast enough for knocking down steel targets.

[conradin]

Switch the eight duct with the Nygord I sent you and see if it helps.

[John Marchant]

A lot of the noise from the LP10 is created by the barrel vent ports, so there is little that you can do about it.
Not sure that changing the the style of the muzzle break will make much difference.
The sound absorbing panels suggested by Brian is a very good idea.
As a point of interest, the LP2 Compact is a lot noisier than the LP10 or LP10E.

[Scrench]

John,

That's why originally I was looking for the regular length LP2 or the Morini Short, for quietness and light weight. I've discovered I can get the LP10 light enough, but I still have no idea how the other two compare to it decibel-wise. So before I declare it unusable in my backyard and pursue one of the other two, I'm going to experiment with how low I have to adjust the fps to get a reasonable volume. One interesting note, on my first shoot with it, I forgot that you are supposed to refill at 60 BAR, not let it go to the bottom of the green on the gauge. Before I noticed POI was starting to drop off, it did start getting quieter and quieter as one would expect with less fps. Maybe there is an ideal point of compromise somewhere. I'll try to find out.

I asked Buck about the Nygord, and he also told me it wouldn't make any difference.


Scrench

[nick marshall]

If it's for the garden, obtain some type of silencer that the air rifle boys use.

[william]

If it's for the garden, obtain some type of silencer that the air rifle boys use.

Be careful! In the USA silencer is a silencer as far as the law is concerned. Even if you'll only attach it to an air pistol, it must be licensed as if you were putting it on a firearm.

[nick marshall]

If it's for the garden, obtain some type of silencer that the air rifle boys use.

Be careful! In the USA silencer is a silencer as far as the law is concerned. Even if you'll only attach it to an air pistol, it must be licensed as if you were putting it on a firearm.

Oops.
Forget that then. ;0)

[v76]

Sounds like a lot of trouble that could be avoided by shooting inside. You don't have 10m?

[toddinjax]

If it's for the garden, obtain some type of silencer that the air rifle boys use.

Be careful! In the USA silencer is a silencer as far as the law is concerned. Even if you'll only attach it to an air pistol, it must be licensed as if you were putting it on a firearm.

That might well be worth checking in to. I seem to remember (hearing a long time ago) that in Massachusetts simply having a silencer in your possession will get you ten years. Certainly a good law, but also one you don't want to break. I wouldn't think you'd have a problem with an air gun, but I wouldn't assume anything either at the risk of getting raped every time I take a shower. Bad food and unpleasant company too. You really should be sure that it's OK to have.

[Scrench]

Fella's, this is Louisiana. Silencers are legal and God knows what else, but a silencer will not silence the 3 top ports on an LP10 where a lot of the noise is coming from. I'm working on a way to attach a piece of acoustical foam from my recording studio over the vents so that it forms a tunnel over the barrel so I can still use the sights. Foam weighs practically nothing, and if I can find the right density it might work (but will really look stupid). I'm going to hold out until the absolute last resort to lower the velocity. Any and all wacky ideas considered and appreciated.

Not for garden use. I practice 10m and silhouette, which is out to 18 yards for rams. Gotta' be in the back yard.

Scrench

[william]

Silencers are legal, and they are covered under the National Firearms Act (1934?). That puts them in the same class as fully automatic weapons and "destructive devices." Go ahead and acquire one without the required background check and license/registration fee, but before you do ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"

[FredB]

I seem to remember (hearing a long time ago) that in Massachusetts simply having a silencer in your possession will get you ten years. Certainly a good law, but also one you don't want to break.

Please explain why this is a "good law".

[John Marchant]

I have in the past carried out muzzle velocity and POI tests and found that at 10 metres, the Steyr is still very effective down to 500fps. The POI drops about 6mm abd the group does not open up significantly.
If you go less than 500fps the group will start to open up considerably, particularly when shooting at 18yards.
It all depends on what size of group is acceptable to you.
The recommended muzzle velocity for the Steyr is 525 -530fps.
The acoustic absorber does not need to be tight to the barrel and could potentially be suspended so as to not interfere with your normal sight line.
If you make the "box" three sided with no bottom, this should not affect the raising of the pistol.

[toddinjax]

I seem to remember (hearing a long time ago) that in Massachusetts simply having a silencer in your possession will get you ten years. Certainly a good law, but also one you don't want to break.

Please explain why this is a "good law".

Really? You can't figure out for yourself how a silencer could be used on a handheld firearm that would warrant such a law? I'll be respectful enough to suggest that you are merely "playing" dumb for some reason.

[Gwhite]

Laws against the possession of silencers are only obeyed by the law abiding.

If someone decides to shoot somebody in a deliberate, premeditated fashion, with enough advanced planning to go and get a silencer for the task, they have already demonstrated that they have no regard for one of the most universal moral no-nos in society. Adding another minor infraction to the list of their crimes isn't going to slow them down one bit.

Prohibitions against silencers are like most other gun laws. They affect the honest citizens FAR more than the criminals.