Why Can't I Buy a Steyr LP10 Long?

NRA.Benefactor · Post by **NRA.Benefactor** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:51 am

An Open Letter to Pilkguns RE: Steyr LP10 Long
When I went online to buy an air pistol, and after due diligence, I decided to get a Steyr LP10. That air gun is only distributed by Pilkguns in Tennessee. Okay, I'm ready to order it, but wait -- I am forbidden from ordering it! Here's what the Web site says:
"Effective December 1rst, 2013, Pilkington Competition is only selling the Long version to advanced competitors. Effective December 1rst, 2013, Pilkington Competition is only selling the Compact version to most users.
We believe in helping our customers excel in this sport, and we no longer believe that can be done by selling long versions of pistols to inexperienced users.
If you wish to purchase a long version, you will have to show proof of a 555 or higher score in a major national competition. Alternatively those actively working with a coach, can have their coach contact us if they think you would benefit from the extra length."
While I truly believe that the nice folks at Pilkguns are sincere about their opinion, it should be posted here, on TargetTalk, not made into a corporate policy that covers exactly one gun. If I went to Sears and they wouldn't sell me an outdoor barbecue grill because I hadn't grilled enough last year, you can imagine how absurd that would be, but here is a policy that covers the entire U.S.A., and nobody but an established Olympic-level shooter can lay down his/her money and purchase an air pistol of their own choosing. I don't enter competitions, mostly because I compete against myself, and that's enough to give me satisfaction. Well, maybe I don't get it, but maybe I do – instead of the LP10 that I couldn't buy, I bought a Morini 162EI at Champion's Choice, also a Tennessee company, but one that didn't try to ask my shooting score or my shoe size before delivering the pistol in exchange for cash. I thought that Capitalism was based on the free sale of merchandise to people who had the means to afford it. Who knew that a store owner could change the rules of Capitalism on one particular item in his entire store, based on the questionable assumption that he knows best what I should spend my money on? "Would Sears do it?"
I shoot every single day, because I enjoy it, and I'm retired enough to make that happen. Am I the only one out here who wants to challenge Pilkguns on this issue? Can an air pistol reseller decide by arbitrary policy that I'm not qualified to buy a commodity item? I'm planning for the gun to go to my grandson, so I don't care about shooting 555 myself, and I never will; but maybe someday Bill will shoot 555 and surprise you all.
I know that this forum is moderated by Pilkguns, and I respect them enough to ask them publicly for a redress of this policy. It's hard enough to find shooters who want to buy world-class 10 meter air pistols, so why do you want to chase them away when they're knocking at your door, waving greenbacks? You may be well-meaning, but you're not very good at selling Steyer LP10 long pistols, which I assume you would like to do to stay in business.
Don't everybody get your back up -- this isn't an attack on Pilkguns, and questions like this are suitable for a forum like this. I don't want to hear about how absurd my question is, or how I should start competing so that i can finally work my way up to Piklgun's level of expectations (my score is none of their business -- or anybody's). I just want to know if anyone else objects to a single gun being withheld for an arbitrary reason.
Most Respectfully,
Doug Hilton (NRA Benefactor Life Member), Huntsville Alabama

v76 · Post by **v76** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:42 am

I thought this was merely tongue in cheek by Pilk but it seems the LP10 "long" can't be added to the shopping cart (0.00$). I understand Scott's point to keep "newcomers" (554 at a national?) interested in the sport (and improving) by using a gun they would most likely shoot better at first but I also don't think that's his call to make - but it's his business so I'm sure he wouldn't do anything to harm it.

Most shooters I know started on the 46M and after 1-2 years move onto PCP so it doesn't seems like a weight thing. Sights easier to keep in check probably (but then, not a problem for people coming from the good 'ole Russian gun). The CM162EI short has the same sight radius as the longer version so that's probably why it isn't included in the policy. It seems it's really targeting people that think a LP10 will turn them into Jin Jong-Oh overnight and sell their gun after a year when they come to the conclusion that it hasn't.

Ironically, I think the Morini short is a better buy weight/balance-wise than the already quite light LP10.

Sight radius:
CM162EI + Short = 310-350mm
LP10 = 316-365mm
LP10 Compact = 266-316mm
IZH-46M = 362mm

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:33 pm

Plenty of them in the classifieds.

remnar · Post by **remnar** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:41 pm

Give them what they need= seller knows best.
Give them what they want= buyer knows best.

Caveat emptor.

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:17 pm

I must admit I thought it was a bit strange when I first saw this. And not a move that would be good for business.

The customer is "always right". The best thing a seller can do is offer good advice, but in the end the buyer will buy what he/she wants and if they can't get it from one seller, the will go to another.

For what it's worth, I don't think that all new shooters need to start with a short pistol, for some it helps, but others are quite capable of starting with the long version (you can always move the front sight back to shorten sight radius!). Remember that most shooters shoot because they enjoy it, being told that you can't have the gun you want and you must buy something else isn't exactly adding to the enjoyable experience!

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:06 pm

You've all seen the posts on here. Dozens of "which gun should I buy."

Now they know and we won't have to bother ourselves with silly questions any longer.

EAL22 · Post by **EAL22** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:36 pm

You can buy a LP10 long from Champions Choice they show most models in
stock ready to buy.

somewhereinla · Post by **somewhereinla** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:18 pm

I don't have much of an opinion. I think it's an interesting move from Pilkguns. But I do have to say that my dealing with them in the past has always been outstanding and I respect their new "philosophy"... maybe there is something to it...

dronning · Post by **dronning** » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:24 pm

The complete compact only policy - with the 555+ challenge. Quite a deal I might add.

-Dave
============================

Effective December 1rst, 2013, Pilkington Competition is only selling the Long version to advanced competitors
Effective December 1rst, 2013, Pilkington Competition is only selling the Compact version to most users
We believe in helping our customers excel in this sport, and we no longer believe that can be done by selling long versions of pistols to inexperienced users.

If you wish to purchase a long version, you will have to show proof of a 555 or higher score in a major national competition. Alternatively those actively working with a coach, can have their coach contact us if they think you would benefit from the extra length.

Want to win a FREE Air pistol?
If you shoot a 555+ score at a major competition* within in one year of purchasing your compact version, we will give you a long version ( or another short if you want a backup) . YES! THAT IS A FREE $2000.00 PISTOL! If you shoot a 555+ within two years of your purchase , and wish to try a longer barrel, we will exchange your barrel and barrel shroud at no charge.
* Examples of such would be a USAS Selection Matches, Collegiate Championships or USASNC.

6string · Post by **6string** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:16 am

Hmm, I wonder what would happen to participation in this sport (or even it's very existence) if such a philosophy was carried over to all high level pistols suitable to the various disciplines?
I wonder how many of the specialized retailers would stay in business if this became the standard practice across the board?

What would be the cut off score to buy a Morini free pistol?
What would be the cut off score for a Pardini SP or HP?

Why not then extend the practice to ammuniton?
What would be the cut off score to purchase Lapua, RWS, or Eley Tenex?

Think about it......

Jim

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:51 am

Not the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Saw too many people who ran off and got a "top of the line" AP to start with, only to find out that can't handle it. They either downgrade to a short one, stay at 510 for the rest of their lifes, or get frustrated and stop shooting. Either way, some of the fallout is going to land on the dealer. So I can understand Scott, even if the policy reads pretty crass.

SarahJ · Post by **SarahJ** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:10 am

So what is are the negative issues of a 'Long' pistol?

I shoot a LP50 Compact and a LP10 standard. I know the triggers are quite different, but I always find the LP10 more forgiving than the LP50. I've also used a Compact P34, which again seems less forgiving than the longer Steyr pistol.

Regards,

Sarah

Silvershooter · Post by **Silvershooter** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:20 am

I had a LP10 compact, found it very unforgiving compared to the LP10e standard length. Moving the rear sight back on the compact was not an option for me as I shoot cross dominant. Sold it after a couple of months.

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:49 am

Perhaps some manufacturers will soon decide not to deliver any match guns to the USA (or to US dealers), until the US have their first World Champion or Olympic Champion in Air Pistol. It would perhaps be a waste of excellent products to amateurs...

(I hope you get the irony in it)

Walther doesn't think of any restrictions like that - if a customer thinks that one of our guns is the best for him and he can afford it, he will of course receive it from us (hm, if it's in stock, of course...).

Scott P. is a long-term friend of mine, but this announcement surprised me also a lot.

A happy weekend nevertheless to everybody here...

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:48 am

Except for the fact that Walther develops its pistols while selling them, so the top competitors get the new triggers, and John Doe is crawling around under the bench looking for his rear sight that just fell off.

nick marshall · Post by **nick marshall** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:05 am

With this restriction?

My first Air pistol when I took up shooting again last year was a used full length LP10. After a few weeks, I fancied a brand new one, so I purchased one from my local dealer, insisting he purchased it from the Steyr UK importer.

If I was told I could not buy a full length LP10 from the UK importer. I would have got it by another means, easily and cheaper.

If I was told it was the uk importer's own restriction, I would contact the factory and complain most vocally.

I think the whole idea is absolutely ludicrous!

It's a good job I live in the UK.

I would not buy a Pilkguns Pistol anyway unless they were able to supply it without that horribly naff pilkguns logo on the right hand side.

However, I do like the idea of winning a free LP10 for shooting 555 plus in a comp. That would be a great incentive. They could even engrave it both
sides. ;0)

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:46 am

Tycho wrote:Except for the fact that Walther develops its pistols while selling them, so the top competitors get the new triggers, and John Doe is crawling around under the bench looking for his rear sight that just fell off.

Ah, here he comes: I would have been astonished, if Tycho would not have taken this chance to bash again in a completely different thread against Walther - and, I assume, again without mentioning names, dates and details. Any company develops and improves their guns further and further after the day of introduction, and any company encounters problems, smaller or bigger, during the production. For example Steyr changed their valve and the compensator within the LP1 and LP10-production, Morini altered the tanks in the 1990's after some accidents (without changing the model number), Feinwerkbau introduced the P44 shortly (and surprisingly) after the launch of the P40. Anschütz even stopped their air rifle mod 2001 after some problems with the action - they redesigned it, renumbered it and made their model 8001. Guess if the owners of the 2001 all got a new 8001 for free instead, or if the other customers received new guns after a minor or major improvement...

No, they didn't, that's life, or more exact: the circle of life. And the reason, why all the manuals end with the phrase: "Subject to technical modifications."

You must have been disappointed very badly - sorry for that, but it wasn't my fault and generally most of our customers with complaints or problems with their guns are satisfied after they sent in the guns for maintenance or repair, even after the warranty time. But perhaps you did complain in the same way like you are writing here (only guessing). I offered to help you some weeks ago, you refused. Okay, case closed - at least from our side.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:18 am

Go Ulrich!!! I'd be happy to buy you a beer.

I'm glad to see someone on this forum in touch with reality.

FredB · Post by **FredB** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:14 pm

Ulrich Eichstädt wrote:Perhaps some manufacturers will soon decide not to deliver any match guns to the USA (or to US dealers), until the US have their first World Champion or Olympic Champion in Air Pistol. It would perhaps be a waste of excellent products to amateurs...

(I hope you get the irony in it)

I get the irony and your point, but I believe that Don Nygord was in fact the first US World Champion in AP. So keep those top-level products coming.

edit: Even better irony. IIRC he won the World Championship using the first SHORT-barrelled FWB 65. So maybe it's the short-barrel APs that should be off-limits to beginners?

spektr · Post by **spektr** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:28 pm

Ok I'm missing something...... If the short barrel is "more forgiving in the hands of a less experienced shooter", AND the long barrel shoots better decimal 10's....

Then it follows that MOST shooters who recognize the fact that they will never win on the world level should shoot the short gun.....

I can see Scotts point here that they might actually be better off score wise with a "more forgiving gun". Cool. This philosophy in my mind perpetuates the excuse's for the common shooter such as, IF I ONLY HAD THE LONG BARREL GUN I'd score better.... It also allows the average shooter an excuse for not winning, or shooting at his best, because the most accurate tool wasn't available to him. It creates a "fake caste system", or at least officially identifies a caste system, since very few are capable of winning on any day.

What really toasts my cookies is that I can't get my butt kicked on a level excuse free playing field and live with the truth about my abilities.

If I were to buy a Ferrari, I'm sure the dealer would NEVER arbitrarily try to get me into a slower more forgiving car for my own good based on how fast I was, but a dealer wanting repeat business WOULD bring up the conversation and tell me about it...

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Why Can't I Buy a Steyr LP10 Long?

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