After reaching 575+ in 50m prone I finally decided to do some ammo testing with my old Anschutz Match 54 (1970) and the results were bad (even got 8's) except for one batch, Eley Team, wich isn't produced anymore... lucky me :(
Before I start looking into bedding the system I want to be sure about some other things.
- When you put the receiver with barrel in the stock, and before tightening the screws, should you pull the action backwards against the recoil lug?
- Can the tang touch the stock or absolutely not?
All novice questions but I wasn't able to find the answers yet.
Many thanks,
K.
Correct way of installing receiver with barrel in stock ?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
You should be able to download the manual for your rifle from the Anschutz website. It has instructions for installing the stock.
To give a direct answer they reccommend holding the rifle vertically with the butt on the floor/support. Hold the action and stock together with one hand a tighten the screws. I usually do them until they just start to show resistance, then I do a little on each screw about half to three quarters of a turn. This keeps the torque fairly consistent on both screws. I follow this procedure until I reach the required torque. My rifle is a later 1813 (84 proof marks) with the washer stack on the screws. I run my rifle at 4.5 Nm on both screws and find that it is not too fussy over the exact setting, as long as they are identical.
Many others find, especially with 14xx series rifles that playing with the exact torque setting can really help tune the rifle to different batches of ammo. What is really important is to use a good torque wrench to get those settings spot on each time. Anschutz reccomend between 4 Nm and 5Nm for the wooden match stocks. This is much higher than would usually be used on a sporting rifle. As you say you have a 1970 vintage rifle I am assuming it is in the original wooden stock. Torque settings for Aluminium stocks are usually higher at around 6Nm.
Alan
To give a direct answer they reccommend holding the rifle vertically with the butt on the floor/support. Hold the action and stock together with one hand a tighten the screws. I usually do them until they just start to show resistance, then I do a little on each screw about half to three quarters of a turn. This keeps the torque fairly consistent on both screws. I follow this procedure until I reach the required torque. My rifle is a later 1813 (84 proof marks) with the washer stack on the screws. I run my rifle at 4.5 Nm on both screws and find that it is not too fussy over the exact setting, as long as they are identical.
Many others find, especially with 14xx series rifles that playing with the exact torque setting can really help tune the rifle to different batches of ammo. What is really important is to use a good torque wrench to get those settings spot on each time. Anschutz reccomend between 4 Nm and 5Nm for the wooden match stocks. This is much higher than would usually be used on a sporting rifle. As you say you have a 1970 vintage rifle I am assuming it is in the original wooden stock. Torque settings for Aluminium stocks are usually higher at around 6Nm.
Alan
Ken,
personally I wouldn't worry too much about the position of the recoil lug. I have seen enough Anschutz Match 54 barrel/actions and stocks interchanged with little effect on accuracy if the inletting is good.
I take it your 1970 rifle does not have the washers under the bedding bolts? If this has not been epoxy bedded, I would only tighten the bolts hand tight (and even then back off a touch).
You don't say how many batches you tested; were you able to test many batches or just a few? It may be that a repeat test, with more batches, will yield better results.
If further tests give similar results, then I would look at the bedding. Are the bolts loose at all or bottoming out? If the heads don't look neat and clean, a previous owner may have over tightened them and compressed the wood. Is there any sign that the wood has soften through exposure to oil and cleaning solvent?
While bedding could be the issue, it could equally be the barrel. What is your cleaning regimen? If you don't clean regularly, fouling (especially lead) could have built up enough to produce poor results. A very thorough clean with a brass brush and a solvent may restore accuracy. If you do clean regularly, perhaps the barrel is wearing out. Barrels don't shoot accurately for ever; your rifle is 44 years old would only need moderate use each year to have fired enough rounds to lose accuracy.
Do you know how many rounds it has fired? If it needs many shots to shoot well after a clean, this can be a sign of wear (but not always).
These are very basic questions, so forgive me if you have checked them already:
Is the muzzle crown in good condition? No scratches, marks, or uneven wear?
What is the headspace? This can increase in size through use, and can cause inconsistent ignition/accuracy. 0.042-0.043in is good, but some factory barrels may be a little larger at 0.044-45in and still shoot well.
Is the barrel free-floating? It's not unknown for the stock to touch the barrel, which can cause inconsistent grouping.
personally I wouldn't worry too much about the position of the recoil lug. I have seen enough Anschutz Match 54 barrel/actions and stocks interchanged with little effect on accuracy if the inletting is good.
I take it your 1970 rifle does not have the washers under the bedding bolts? If this has not been epoxy bedded, I would only tighten the bolts hand tight (and even then back off a touch).
You don't say how many batches you tested; were you able to test many batches or just a few? It may be that a repeat test, with more batches, will yield better results.
If further tests give similar results, then I would look at the bedding. Are the bolts loose at all or bottoming out? If the heads don't look neat and clean, a previous owner may have over tightened them and compressed the wood. Is there any sign that the wood has soften through exposure to oil and cleaning solvent?
While bedding could be the issue, it could equally be the barrel. What is your cleaning regimen? If you don't clean regularly, fouling (especially lead) could have built up enough to produce poor results. A very thorough clean with a brass brush and a solvent may restore accuracy. If you do clean regularly, perhaps the barrel is wearing out. Barrels don't shoot accurately for ever; your rifle is 44 years old would only need moderate use each year to have fired enough rounds to lose accuracy.
Do you know how many rounds it has fired? If it needs many shots to shoot well after a clean, this can be a sign of wear (but not always).
These are very basic questions, so forgive me if you have checked them already:
Is the muzzle crown in good condition? No scratches, marks, or uneven wear?
What is the headspace? This can increase in size through use, and can cause inconsistent ignition/accuracy. 0.042-0.043in is good, but some factory barrels may be a little larger at 0.044-45in and still shoot well.
Is the barrel free-floating? It's not unknown for the stock to touch the barrel, which can cause inconsistent grouping.
I installed my Match 54 system in a 1413 stock and it doesn't have the washers under the bedding bolts.
I only had time to test 7 different brands. Fortunately I was able to buy the rest of the Elye team stock that was left (1600 rounds). Those gave consistent results of +105 (on Meyton target).
I don't think the bolts are bottoming, they look clean and I measured everyting, and there are no signs that the wood did soften.
Of course I don't know how the previous owner used the rifle or how many shots he has fired. What I do know that he wasn't much of a 'cleaner'.
After every session I clean the barrel with solvent and brass brush and recondition the barrel with a tiny bit of teflon grease.
Last night I decided to do the thorough cleaning you sugested. Each time running a felt with solvent, then the brass brush with solvent (about 10 passes) and finaly run dry felts until they come out white. I continued to do that maybe 10 times and every time after the brass brush the next felts come out realy dirty. Should I continue this process untill the first felts after the pass with the brass brush come out white?
I only had time to test 7 different brands. Fortunately I was able to buy the rest of the Elye team stock that was left (1600 rounds). Those gave consistent results of +105 (on Meyton target).
I don't think the bolts are bottoming, they look clean and I measured everyting, and there are no signs that the wood did soften.
Of course I don't know how the previous owner used the rifle or how many shots he has fired. What I do know that he wasn't much of a 'cleaner'.
After every session I clean the barrel with solvent and brass brush and recondition the barrel with a tiny bit of teflon grease.
Last night I decided to do the thorough cleaning you sugested. Each time running a felt with solvent, then the brass brush with solvent (about 10 passes) and finaly run dry felts until they come out white. I continued to do that maybe 10 times and every time after the brass brush the next felts come out realy dirty. Should I continue this process untill the first felts after the pass with the brass brush come out white?
Teflon in barrels is not a good idea. It plays havoc with accuracy based on several articles I've read over the years.ken4all wrote:...recondition the barrel with a tiny bit of teflon grease...
Why are you greasing the barrel after cleaning?
Yes, if you want to end with a clean barrel.... Should I continue this process untill the first felts after the pass with the brass brush come out white?
Ken4All,
seven batches is a fair number, but more won't hurt.
If you are worried about the bedding, but don't want to alter your rifle yet, could you test again with the barrel in another stock? If the results are again unsatisfactory, it would rule out the stock.
As for cleaning, DLS is right. Dirty patches mean the barrel isn't clean. I must say that your cleaning method is unusual; most shooters do not alternative wet patches and the brush. Wetting the bore with solvent, letting it soak in for 10 minutes, brushing, and then patching is more common.
I too have heard that teflon in the barrel can cause grouping, but don't have hard evidence to prove it.
seven batches is a fair number, but more won't hurt.
If you are worried about the bedding, but don't want to alter your rifle yet, could you test again with the barrel in another stock? If the results are again unsatisfactory, it would rule out the stock.
As for cleaning, DLS is right. Dirty patches mean the barrel isn't clean. I must say that your cleaning method is unusual; most shooters do not alternative wet patches and the brush. Wetting the bore with solvent, letting it soak in for 10 minutes, brushing, and then patching is more common.
I too have heard that teflon in the barrel can cause grouping, but don't have hard evidence to prove it.
Do you have access to a torque wrnch you can use? Getting the troque right is really important IMO. This seems to be even more important on the older rifles without the washers. Most of the match rifles that I have known of work best with the screws torqued to somewhere in the range that Anschutz reccomend. Running the rifle with the screws only just starting to bite is usually a good way to get regular bad flyers, as well as a slightly enlarged group.
When you clean the rifle, remember that if you follow a wet patch with a dry patch, that dry patch will pick up most of the cleaning solution and come out the same colour as the wet patch went in, even if the bore is perfectly clean. I would be more worried if I could still see traces of fouling still mixed in.
Alan
When you clean the rifle, remember that if you follow a wet patch with a dry patch, that dry patch will pick up most of the cleaning solution and come out the same colour as the wet patch went in, even if the bore is perfectly clean. I would be more worried if I could still see traces of fouling still mixed in.
Alan
True,BigAl wrote:When you clean the rifle, remember that if you follow a wet patch with a dry patch, that dry patch will pick up most of the cleaning solution and come out the same colour as the wet patch went in, even if the bore is perfectly clean. I would be more worried if I could still see traces of fouling still mixed in.
Alan
my preference is to swab with wet patches until I can't see any grey marks, before drying the bore. The first one or two dry patches will be discoloured by the solvent. Patches that go in dry and come out dry, but with dark streaks mean (to me at least) that there are still stubborn deposits in the bore.
Unless someone's messed with the stock and moulded in bedding compound, it's wood on metal - doesn't stick.Andre wrote:Just a note, when you bed your action use shoe polish or paste wax as a release agent. Nothing sticks to it and you don't have to overpay for tiny bottles of release agent.
The Anschutz service team certainly don't use any sort of release agent when they've reassembled my rifle after giving it a once-over, just bolt the receiver directly onto the stock wood.
As others have said, use a torque wrench. You're wasting your time if the torque isn't consistent. Be sure to alternate between the bedding bolts as you tighten - don't do one up to full torque and then do the other up. I wind them both finger tight so the action isn't going to fall out, then stand the stock vertical and alternate between bolts with the torque wrench just tapping the stock gently on the table to ensure it's settled properly.
Not convinced about putting teflon down the barrel either. .22lr is self-lubricating and with a regular cleaning regime you don't need anything else. I know people involved in Eley and barrel manufacturing and I've never heard any of them advocate using teflon as part of a cleaning regime.
I'd also warn against over-scrubbing with the brush. Obviously if the previous owner wasn't much of a cleaner then you want to get it back to a decent condition, but then a patch through after you shoot is perfectly sufficient and a more thorough clean once a fortnight or month depending how regularly you shoot and how much ammo you're putting through it. As many barrels are damaged by over-zealous cleaning as are genuinely shot out.
Is the crown good? If it's an old barrel has the crown been damaged? That will muller your accuracy, and a re-crown is not a difficult job for a competent barrelsmith.
The other consideration is if the previous owner never cleaned it, is whether it's bulged if they had a build-up of a hard deposit. Nothing you can do if that's the case (unless it's really close to the muzzle such you can chop off the damaged section and recrown, but a new barrel is a more sensible solution).
Last edited by Hemmers on Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bedding the action is something totally different from reassembling it. When you bed the action you carve out material from the stock and put in bedding mass and then put in the action and with the action in place the bedding mass hardens and creates a perfect fit. If you don't have a release agent on the action when you put it in the bedding mass then when it hardens the action will probably be permanently fixed in the stock.Hemmers wrote: Unless someone's messed with the stock and moulded in bedding compound, it's wood on metal - doesn't stick.
The Anschutz service team certainly don't use any sort of release agent when they've reassembled my rifle after giving it a once-over, just bolt the receiver directly onto the stock wood.
This is something you do once then you can disassemble and reassemble in normal fashion.