Hello
I have a question for the 32 S&W Long uses.
I am planing on loading a .314 swaged HBWC for a Walther GSP. I still need to confirm if this will get swaged during the loading process as the barrel has a tight chamber. I will also need to slug to barrel to ensure that the chamber is not too tight for the bore.
My question is how much larger are people loading there bullets over the grove diameter of their barrels?
I know the old rule was .001-.002" over. Is this still the case for the soft HBWCs?
If I was to get a .311 barrel can I still use .314 HBWC or should I go down to a .312?
Thanks
Spaceball
32 bullet and barrel sizes.
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
A lead HBWC will not have any problems swaging down .003, you will have slightly higher pressures compared to a similar load with a smaller bullet and would need to keep that in mind with load development.
Accuracy on the other hand is a wildcard. The more deformation the bullet undergoes the more potential for inaccuracy to creep in. Only testing would bear that out conclusively. You may find the opposite is true, but this is not as likely as a closely matched bullet.
Put a jacket on the bullet, or shoot a hard cast bullet of more "solid" construction (say a Keith style or even a LRN) then pressures will spike a great deal more and could become a real problem depending on the load / gun combo.
Accuracy on the other hand is a wildcard. The more deformation the bullet undergoes the more potential for inaccuracy to creep in. Only testing would bear that out conclusively. You may find the opposite is true, but this is not as likely as a closely matched bullet.
Put a jacket on the bullet, or shoot a hard cast bullet of more "solid" construction (say a Keith style or even a LRN) then pressures will spike a great deal more and could become a real problem depending on the load / gun combo.
32 Wadcutter
Greetings,
Are you loading for a factory Walther Barrel? If so, the factory chambers are ususally "generous" in size.
Swaged 0.314" bullets shoot fine in barrels as small as 0.308". There is a slight pressure increase as evidenced by a higher velocity.
Some brass have thick case walls in the midsection. Using a 0.314" expander plug will often bulge the case in this area sometimes causing chambering issues.
Most Lapua, R-P, and Fiocchi brass works well for full length wadcutter bullets seated flush.
Cheers,
Dave
Are you loading for a factory Walther Barrel? If so, the factory chambers are ususally "generous" in size.
Swaged 0.314" bullets shoot fine in barrels as small as 0.308". There is a slight pressure increase as evidenced by a higher velocity.
Some brass have thick case walls in the midsection. Using a 0.314" expander plug will often bulge the case in this area sometimes causing chambering issues.
Most Lapua, R-P, and Fiocchi brass works well for full length wadcutter bullets seated flush.
Cheers,
Dave
Slug your barrel, go .001-.002 over for soft lead projectiles (cast or swagged, solid or HBWC).
Use a neck sizer same diameter as the projectile and go as deep as the projectile is seated.
Make sure the full length sizing die does not over tighten the fired cases, most size for .311-.312, if loading .314 try to find a larger .314 full length sizer die.
After loading and crimping, pull some projectiles and measure to see if your loading is swagging down your projectile size. This is a common cause of poor accuracy and leading.
My Hammerli barrel is .313 and I load .314 cast 84g wadcutters. The sizing die is lapped out by .004 and I use a .314 neck sizer.
Fired Starline brass is sized down by about.002 only and neck sized.
A firm push will put my projectiles about 3/4 of the way in the case and a small taper crimp .005 is used to hold the projectiles against recoil.
Loaded with 1.6g N310, 780 fps they shoot a 20mm group at 25m.
Use a neck sizer same diameter as the projectile and go as deep as the projectile is seated.
Make sure the full length sizing die does not over tighten the fired cases, most size for .311-.312, if loading .314 try to find a larger .314 full length sizer die.
After loading and crimping, pull some projectiles and measure to see if your loading is swagging down your projectile size. This is a common cause of poor accuracy and leading.
My Hammerli barrel is .313 and I load .314 cast 84g wadcutters. The sizing die is lapped out by .004 and I use a .314 neck sizer.
Fired Starline brass is sized down by about.002 only and neck sized.
A firm push will put my projectiles about 3/4 of the way in the case and a small taper crimp .005 is used to hold the projectiles against recoil.
Loaded with 1.6g N310, 780 fps they shoot a 20mm group at 25m.
Oversize Carbide Dies
Greetings,
I purchased several "oversize" Carbide 32 S&W Long sizing dies from Lee Precision. They work well for 0.314" bullets.
They, Lee Precision, may still have some in stock.
Cheers,
Dave
I purchased several "oversize" Carbide 32 S&W Long sizing dies from Lee Precision. They work well for 0.314" bullets.
They, Lee Precision, may still have some in stock.
Cheers,
Dave
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BullseyeEd
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 9:34 pm
- Location: United States
32 bullet and barrel sizes
For those who shoot a Walther .32 S&WL GSP. I'm a longtime Bullseye match shooter (50+ yrs) & a Mechanical Engr. Through many tests, using a Ransom Rest & shooting different factory loads & many combinations of bullet brands, powder, primers, lubes, I'd like to pass along which I have found as the best load for my GSP for both 50 & 25 yards.
First, forget soft-swaged bullets because, although they can be made to shoot well, they are more costly, touchy & difficult to do so compared to obtaining the same accuracy as hard-cast bullets. I started with NEW Starline brass from the SAME LOT. This is important as the brass MUST be uniform in thickness, length, etc. to get uniform accuracy. Start by shooting the brass at least once to expand it in your chamber. Measure the chamber (mine is 0.3395"). Slug the barrel (mine is 0.3128:) You may need your dimensions to compare with mine if any adjustments are needed using the following recommendations:
Obtain a mold for a 100 gr. DEWC bullet. It MUST be FLAT at both ends (no knobs or buttons on either end) with a minimum chamfer. I recommend the Ballisti-Cast #878 100 gr. DEWC. Use an alloy of about 15-17 BHN with at least 2.5% Sn. Size the bullets sprue-cut end first approx. 0.0005" over bore dia. (mine is sized 0.3134"). Use NRA 50/50 Beeswax/Alox lube in only one groove at the top (nose) of the bullet. Have Lee Precision lap a carbide sizing die to 0.335" and size fired cases. DO NOT USE A STANDARD 0.331" DIE. Use a Lyman "M" expanding die to expand with a slight flare. Prime with a good quality primer (I use CCI). Charge with 1.6-1.7 gr. Bullseye or equivalent to get 750-775 fps velocity. Put the bullets in the cases NOSE FIRST so that the sprue cut-off end is FACING FORWARD. This is VERY important as the bullet then becomes a nose-pour bullet with a perfect base and with the lubricant in the last groove. If the bullet is seated base first (as usual), the casting irregularities and sprue cut-off will cause about 10% flyers. That's why I required a flat-nosed bullet as the nose becomes the base and the lubricated groove is now on the base end in the case when loaded. With the cases sized 0.335", the bullet should be a snug fit that can be pushed in by hand until the base (original nose) contacts the tapered sides of the case with approx. 3/32" protruding above the mouth. Seat the bullet until the nose (orig. base) is about 1/32" above the case mouth (make sure the cartridges fit in the magazine at this point.) There will be a slight narrow bulge of about 0.338" - 0.339" raised on the exterior of the case where the bullet expands it. This seals the base of the bullet in the case above the powder charge and the bulge tends to center the cartridge in the chamber. The bulge will not adversely affect chambering. Taper crimp the cartridge fairly heavily to prevent the bullet moving from recoil. In my GSP, this load averages 2.0" - 2.5" 10-shot groups in the Ransom Rest at 50 yards. Good luck and, if you need any more particulars, I don't mind your calling me at 850-476-0924.
First, forget soft-swaged bullets because, although they can be made to shoot well, they are more costly, touchy & difficult to do so compared to obtaining the same accuracy as hard-cast bullets. I started with NEW Starline brass from the SAME LOT. This is important as the brass MUST be uniform in thickness, length, etc. to get uniform accuracy. Start by shooting the brass at least once to expand it in your chamber. Measure the chamber (mine is 0.3395"). Slug the barrel (mine is 0.3128:) You may need your dimensions to compare with mine if any adjustments are needed using the following recommendations:
Obtain a mold for a 100 gr. DEWC bullet. It MUST be FLAT at both ends (no knobs or buttons on either end) with a minimum chamfer. I recommend the Ballisti-Cast #878 100 gr. DEWC. Use an alloy of about 15-17 BHN with at least 2.5% Sn. Size the bullets sprue-cut end first approx. 0.0005" over bore dia. (mine is sized 0.3134"). Use NRA 50/50 Beeswax/Alox lube in only one groove at the top (nose) of the bullet. Have Lee Precision lap a carbide sizing die to 0.335" and size fired cases. DO NOT USE A STANDARD 0.331" DIE. Use a Lyman "M" expanding die to expand with a slight flare. Prime with a good quality primer (I use CCI). Charge with 1.6-1.7 gr. Bullseye or equivalent to get 750-775 fps velocity. Put the bullets in the cases NOSE FIRST so that the sprue cut-off end is FACING FORWARD. This is VERY important as the bullet then becomes a nose-pour bullet with a perfect base and with the lubricant in the last groove. If the bullet is seated base first (as usual), the casting irregularities and sprue cut-off will cause about 10% flyers. That's why I required a flat-nosed bullet as the nose becomes the base and the lubricated groove is now on the base end in the case when loaded. With the cases sized 0.335", the bullet should be a snug fit that can be pushed in by hand until the base (original nose) contacts the tapered sides of the case with approx. 3/32" protruding above the mouth. Seat the bullet until the nose (orig. base) is about 1/32" above the case mouth (make sure the cartridges fit in the magazine at this point.) There will be a slight narrow bulge of about 0.338" - 0.339" raised on the exterior of the case where the bullet expands it. This seals the base of the bullet in the case above the powder charge and the bulge tends to center the cartridge in the chamber. The bulge will not adversely affect chambering. Taper crimp the cartridge fairly heavily to prevent the bullet moving from recoil. In my GSP, this load averages 2.0" - 2.5" 10-shot groups in the Ransom Rest at 50 yards. Good luck and, if you need any more particulars, I don't mind your calling me at 850-476-0924.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
FAS 603s from the mid 1980s were deliberately manufactured with .308" barrels. They handled decent quality .312" or .313" HBWC bullets with great effect at 25m.Misny wrote:Darius "Doc" Young had a lot of success with the .32, even in bullseye pistol shooting @ 50 yards. He said that he used a barrel of .308".
Great info guys.
I have made up a full length expander that measures .314
I have tried a couple of cases, Lapua, GECO and Starline.
I have no issues with the Lapua or GECO but the Starline bulge about 1/2 way down the case dues to the thickening of the Starline case. This would be about 3/4 of the length a HBWC. If I could get a light ~80gr cast projectile then the base should be above the bulge. I will try some HBWC in the Starline brass and hope that the hollow base will expand enough to seal.
I have access to Starline so I would like to find something that works with them. Very hard to find anything else. Fellow shooter have been having issues splitting Lapua cases only after a couple of reloads.
I will update once I get a chance to try some loads.
What length are people trimming their brass to?
I have made up a full length expander that measures .314
I have tried a couple of cases, Lapua, GECO and Starline.
I have no issues with the Lapua or GECO but the Starline bulge about 1/2 way down the case dues to the thickening of the Starline case. This would be about 3/4 of the length a HBWC. If I could get a light ~80gr cast projectile then the base should be above the bulge. I will try some HBWC in the Starline brass and hope that the hollow base will expand enough to seal.
I have access to Starline so I would like to find something that works with them. Very hard to find anything else. Fellow shooter have been having issues splitting Lapua cases only after a couple of reloads.
I will update once I get a chance to try some loads.
What length are people trimming their brass to?
Trimming brass is difficult because when brass is fired, some of them will get longer and others will get shorter. I think it is more important that the brass is square in the front than it is how long unless the difference is so much that it affects the crimp. What I did was measure all of them and then trim them so that the majority were the same as I didn't want to trim every piece as short as the shortest one. Eventually some that were trimmed got shorter than the ones that weren't trimmed. This was with Lapua brass. I will add that CBC brass is pretty good also and have an idea that Remington makes it because it seems so similar in measurements.
Re: 32 bullet and barrel sizes.
As a complete newbie I need some advice. My bore diameter is about .313" (Pardini HP) so I should probably go for .314 bullets. Currently I have a Lyman full length expander which measures .312 (the small upper ring is .315). The length of the plug is about .550. I gather from this thread that this is not enough to expand a case properly for a .314 bullet. The rub is that my expander already produces a beautiful bulge in Lapua brass (brand new and resized). Moreover after several rounds the expander starts getting stuck in a case and requires a significant force to pull it out. Should I lube it somehow beforehand? And how should I even consider a bigger expander for .314 bullets if this one already ruins my brass. I'm completely lost and I'd appreciate any help or hint.
Re: 32 bullet and barrel sizes.
Cnnhead and spaceball. I have a Pardini HP and Hammerli 280 I shoot.Early on I problems with bulging the brass. My solution was quit sizing the brass. I use a 9mm sizer to decap. I now can seat the majority of my loads with hand pressure. I liked the Hornaday 90gr. 314 swagged wads. Now they are hard to come by. Settled on Lapua 98gr wads. They are easy to come by. Good luck with you reloading.