I'm new to the aftermarket trade in 1911 parts. So I don't know exactly where and what my options are.
I wear prescription glasses for nearsightedness.
My gun is a series 80 colt gold cup in stainless. No modifications of any kind. Not very many rounds shot; maybe 200-300 total.
I need two things: 1. recommendations for well respected pistolsmith to work my trigger and frame rails. 2.recommendations for sights other than factory.
I can't see the factory well enough for consistent target acquisition for good scoring. I can hit targets, but can't compete/win. I want something with dots, post, ghost aperature, straight eights, etc. I don't have any preferences for tritium or fiber; just an easy accurate aiming system that's not just black post/black notch. In my head I can see liking something with a V notch or line post with a small tritium dot in the front.
any help you guys and send will be appreciated.
--James
need iron sight advice for 1911 target use...
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
If you are willing to have a red dot, they are a lot easier to see than any iron sight.
Other than that, some sights are made to see easily but aren't necessarily made for accurate shooting since they aren't easily or accurately adjusted.
You need to find a gunsmith in your area so you aren't eaten up by shipping costs.
Other than that, some sights are made to see easily but aren't necessarily made for accurate shooting since they aren't easily or accurately adjusted.
You need to find a gunsmith in your area so you aren't eaten up by shipping costs.
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Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
Just out of curiosity how near sighted are you?
When I was much younger than I am now, I found that being slightly near sighted was an advantage. The front post should be clear and the target blurry. This is what most shooting optics try and achieve.
Resist the temptation to look back and forth from the target to the sight. And try shooting with safety glasses with no prescription. You might see the sights better. Shooting indoors it helps if you have a good overhead light, and good light on the target.
Shoot at blank pieces of paper till you train yourself not to watch the bull.
For the record, in my experience, staring at a crystal clear sight picture does nothing to actually put a round in the x ring. Pulling the trigger smoothly, and quickly is what gives me tens.
There are some really great bullseye shooters in Tennessee who would probably be glad to help you find a gunsmith, and set up your guns.
When I was much younger than I am now, I found that being slightly near sighted was an advantage. The front post should be clear and the target blurry. This is what most shooting optics try and achieve.
Resist the temptation to look back and forth from the target to the sight. And try shooting with safety glasses with no prescription. You might see the sights better. Shooting indoors it helps if you have a good overhead light, and good light on the target.
Shoot at blank pieces of paper till you train yourself not to watch the bull.
For the record, in my experience, staring at a crystal clear sight picture does nothing to actually put a round in the x ring. Pulling the trigger smoothly, and quickly is what gives me tens.
There are some really great bullseye shooters in Tennessee who would probably be glad to help you find a gunsmith, and set up your guns.
You won't improve much on your Gold Cup sights with any other iron sights (assuming your rear is an adjustable sight). It is either go to an optometrist and get fitted with glasses that allow the front sight to be clear - target can be fuzzy. There is a bunch posted on the subject of glasses. You could wear an adjustable iris on your glasses too, this will increase your depth of field, or go with the red dot.
If you want to stick with irons and you are using a center mass hold you may want to try a 6 o'clock hold to help with seeing proper sight alignment.
+1 with what oldcaster says on the smith
If you want to stick with irons and you are using a center mass hold you may want to try a 6 o'clock hold to help with seeing proper sight alignment.
+1 with what oldcaster says on the smith
Certified Safety Instructor: Rifle & Pistol
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~ Ben Franklin
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~ Ben Franklin
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Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
Re: need iron sight advice for 1911 target use...
All of these you mention will work against you in precision sighting. They are essentially compromises between precision and speed, leaning toward speed. The type of competition discussed here needs all the precision you can muster ... even in the "speed" events (rapid fire, timed fire, etc.)fieldsj66 wrote:... I want something with dots, post, ghost aperature, straight eights, etc. I don't have any preferences for tritium or fiber; just an easy accurate aiming system...
... In my head I can see liking something with a V notch or line post with a small tritium dot in the front...
Actually there is a reason the gun comes with this type of sight. It's the best type of iron sight available for precision shooting, short of an aperture system, but many rules preclude this type of sight....that's not just black post/black notch.
Remember, you need to be able to focus on the front sight, it should be razor sharp, crystal clear,insert preferred metaphor here. The rear sight and the target will be blurred, but that's exactly what you want In your sight picture.
As dronning and Isabel1130 state, use a 6-o'clock hold with a razor clear (mixed metaphor ... sorry) front sight and see what happens to your score.
If you can't see the front sight clearly with your normal vision, you need to get a prescription that allows this, as dronning has mentioned.
Can you see the front sight clearly in your normal shooting stance with your normal vision, or with the glasses you presently use for distance viewing? (I'm betting the answer is no)
There are a lot of resources that detail the physics of seeing, and why you want the flat black, plain post and notch presently on your gun. If you want direction to these resources just ask.
I have rarely seen the guys on here come together with such good advice as the posts above.
I'll toss out a couple of tidbits that may stimulate some thinking:
a) The front sight should appear to be as wide as the bull (this is dependent on the length of your arm).
b) The rear sight should show plenty of light around the front sight. You may think a "tight one" will give you better accuracy. It won't. (Also dependent on the length of your arm.)
c) It's obvious that your sources of info are NOT from the bullseye community. Drop them.
d) Going back to "b": you can buy a 3/16" chainsaw file at the hardware store for a couple of bucks. This will allow you to easily open your rear sight into a half-moon notch of appropriate width. The Russians were kicking everyones butt with this back in the day. The only guys who don't like it are the ones who haven't tried it.
I'll toss out a couple of tidbits that may stimulate some thinking:
a) The front sight should appear to be as wide as the bull (this is dependent on the length of your arm).
b) The rear sight should show plenty of light around the front sight. You may think a "tight one" will give you better accuracy. It won't. (Also dependent on the length of your arm.)
c) It's obvious that your sources of info are NOT from the bullseye community. Drop them.
d) Going back to "b": you can buy a 3/16" chainsaw file at the hardware store for a couple of bucks. This will allow you to easily open your rear sight into a half-moon notch of appropriate width. The Russians were kicking everyones butt with this back in the day. The only guys who don't like it are the ones who haven't tried it.
thanks all for the replies.
I will try the eye prescription approach. I have been having problems with sight picture.
rover, I have problems with not enough light. long arms? I am considering the rear sight filing.
In my particular shooting circle, we don't allow for red dots. I win money consistently with my .22s with red dots. I can control the triggers and sights pictures fine with those.
I am so grateful for all the responses, but are there any such things as adjustable rear sights with a V ?
I will try the eye prescription approach. I have been having problems with sight picture.
rover, I have problems with not enough light. long arms? I am considering the rear sight filing.
In my particular shooting circle, we don't allow for red dots. I win money consistently with my .22s with red dots. I can control the triggers and sights pictures fine with those.
I am so grateful for all the responses, but are there any such things as adjustable rear sights with a V ?
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Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
fieldsj66 wrote:thanks all for the replies.
I will try the eye prescription approach. I have been having problems with sight picture.
rover, I have problems with not enough light. long arms? I am considering the rear sight filing.
In my particular shooting circle, we don't allow for red dots. I win money consistently with my .22s with red dots. I can control the triggers and sights pictures fine with those.
I am so grateful for all the responses, but are there any such things as adjustable rear sights with a V ?
If you are shooting good scores with your 22, and not so good scores with your 45, Triggering is almost always the culprit. Get an Ultradot, for your 45. If things don't improve, Start working more on your triggering.
my trigger is definetly part of my problem along with the eyesight on the irons. the triggers in my ruger and browning are very nice. i have trouble with my rifle irons as well. i'll go by my optometrist and get some cheap framed shooting glasses ground.
the colt trigger is too heavy and breaks roughly. not too hot for a $1100 gun. it is only adjustable for creep. breaking close to 6lbs.
the colt trigger is too heavy and breaks roughly. not too hot for a $1100 gun. it is only adjustable for creep. breaking close to 6lbs.
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Jon Eulette
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:13 pm
Series 80 Gold Cup
From a gunsmithing point of view regarding your stainless steel Gold Cup. I would be very cautious about tighening your frame and slide. The older pistols will gall; that's where the to similar metals rub against each other and tear metal from the frame or slide rails. The pistol will lock up and you will not be happy; I promise. Also the older stainless pistols are softer alloy and will not stay tight (they will loosen). You might check with pistolsmith KC Crawford about a high tech coating for the rails to prevent galling. In my many years of doing this I've seen countless stainless pistols gall. For that reason I do not work on them for BE use. I believe KC has had success with stainless newer frames and Accuracy X uses them exclusively. Modern steels though. I guarantee my work and don't like to do it twice :)
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Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
Before you spend money on an optometrist, Run by your local Walmart and check out the reading glasses. Try different strengths until you find one that allows you a clear picture of print at the distance your front sight would be with your arm stuck out in a shooting position.
If you are slightly near sighted, your best sight picture at that length may be with no prescription safety goggles.
If you are slightly near sighted, your best sight picture at that length may be with no prescription safety goggles.
need iron sight advice for 1911 target use
fieldsj66,
Isabel1130 suggested going to Walmart to find reading glasses that would
help you to see your front sight clearly. I agree with this, with 1 thing to
add. A lot of these "dime store" readers are really cheap and very fragile.
Being small in size (like "granny glasses"), they don't offer much in the
way of eye protection either. You already have prescription eyewear, so
why not try modifying it yourself before going to your eye doctor? Go to
this website: www.optx2020.com. They offer stick-on lenses that you can
apply to your present eyewear in order to temporarily change the existing
prescription. The lenses are removable and reusable. Also, they're
offered in varying strengths; just use Isabel's advice to find the one for
your needs. A club member did this and it worked for him. He took some
spare glasses he had laying around, placed 1 of these lenses on
them and just left it there, creating a set of "dedicated" shooting glasses
that he keeps in his gun box. Cost for a set of 2 identical lenses was
around $30.00(?) at the time. To find the exact product he used, key the
following into your computer:
optx2020.com/p-23-diveoptx-stick-on-lenses-for-divers-large.aspx
Isabel1130 suggested going to Walmart to find reading glasses that would
help you to see your front sight clearly. I agree with this, with 1 thing to
add. A lot of these "dime store" readers are really cheap and very fragile.
Being small in size (like "granny glasses"), they don't offer much in the
way of eye protection either. You already have prescription eyewear, so
why not try modifying it yourself before going to your eye doctor? Go to
this website: www.optx2020.com. They offer stick-on lenses that you can
apply to your present eyewear in order to temporarily change the existing
prescription. The lenses are removable and reusable. Also, they're
offered in varying strengths; just use Isabel's advice to find the one for
your needs. A club member did this and it worked for him. He took some
spare glasses he had laying around, placed 1 of these lenses on
them and just left it there, creating a set of "dedicated" shooting glasses
that he keeps in his gun box. Cost for a set of 2 identical lenses was
around $30.00(?) at the time. To find the exact product he used, key the
following into your computer:
optx2020.com/p-23-diveoptx-stick-on-lenses-for-divers-large.aspx
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ShootingSight
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 9:37 pm
- Location: Cincinnati, OH
- Contact:
The notion of fixing your prescription is the single biggest fix you can make, however dime store reading glasses is the wrong answer.
As an engineer who studied optics, and a photographer who understands depth of field, and as a shooter with bad eyes who feels your pain :-), and as someone who started a small business selling corrective lenses to pistol and rifle shooters, I have gone through the optical math, and the correct answer for pistol shooting is that you need a lens that is +0.75 diopters stronger than your distance correction.
For instance, if you are near sighted, the sphere value in your prescription will be a negative number, like -1.75. For a shooting lens, you add +0.75 to arrive at a -1.00 lens for shooting.
This lens will bring your relaxed focal point back to 1.33 meters, which is the hyperfocal distance of the rear sight for most shooters, so the rear sight is just inside the near edge of your depth of field, and the target is just inside the far edge of your depth of field, so you can see them both at the same time with equal clarity. Your front sight will be solidly inside your depth of field, so it will be a little bit sharper than either the rear or the target, which is what most pistol shooters prefer.
Unfortunately, reading glasses typically start at +1.25, so these are much too strong. You get a great sight picture, but the target is too blurry.
Based on this power, you can get custom glasses made. I offer safety glasses for $90 that have two lenses inserted inside safety glasses. BJones also makes shooter frames that are designed to sit crooked on your face to centralize the lens for shooting for $65 with 1 corrective and 1 'flat' lens, or I think he is $95 if you get 2 corrective lenses.
Or, take an old set of glasses to your eye doc, and have him replace just the shooting eye lens with your most current prescription with a +0.75 added to it. Make sure to get a single power lens - do not get a progressive lens for shooting.
Another option I make that is $50 is a +0.75 lens mounted to a clip, that you would simply clip on to your glasses. I don't love that solution, but only make it because several people have asked for it. It does not manage the safety issue, it leaves you looking through 2 lenses, which can create internal refelctions ... meh. It works, but I think it is a Rube Goldberg solution.
Art Neergaard
ShootingSight LLC
As an engineer who studied optics, and a photographer who understands depth of field, and as a shooter with bad eyes who feels your pain :-), and as someone who started a small business selling corrective lenses to pistol and rifle shooters, I have gone through the optical math, and the correct answer for pistol shooting is that you need a lens that is +0.75 diopters stronger than your distance correction.
For instance, if you are near sighted, the sphere value in your prescription will be a negative number, like -1.75. For a shooting lens, you add +0.75 to arrive at a -1.00 lens for shooting.
This lens will bring your relaxed focal point back to 1.33 meters, which is the hyperfocal distance of the rear sight for most shooters, so the rear sight is just inside the near edge of your depth of field, and the target is just inside the far edge of your depth of field, so you can see them both at the same time with equal clarity. Your front sight will be solidly inside your depth of field, so it will be a little bit sharper than either the rear or the target, which is what most pistol shooters prefer.
Unfortunately, reading glasses typically start at +1.25, so these are much too strong. You get a great sight picture, but the target is too blurry.
Based on this power, you can get custom glasses made. I offer safety glasses for $90 that have two lenses inserted inside safety glasses. BJones also makes shooter frames that are designed to sit crooked on your face to centralize the lens for shooting for $65 with 1 corrective and 1 'flat' lens, or I think he is $95 if you get 2 corrective lenses.
Or, take an old set of glasses to your eye doc, and have him replace just the shooting eye lens with your most current prescription with a +0.75 added to it. Make sure to get a single power lens - do not get a progressive lens for shooting.
Another option I make that is $50 is a +0.75 lens mounted to a clip, that you would simply clip on to your glasses. I don't love that solution, but only make it because several people have asked for it. It does not manage the safety issue, it leaves you looking through 2 lenses, which can create internal refelctions ... meh. It works, but I think it is a Rube Goldberg solution.
Art Neergaard
ShootingSight LLC
I Agree with Art! Because the drug store closeup glasses will rarely yield
perfectly sharp focus on the front blade. You need to get a prescription from
your favorite optometrist or opthamologist. Chances are that you will need
Cylinder(astigmatic) correction to bring the front blade to crystal clear
focus. The prescription should also set the focal point to the exact distance
required. I know because I needed cylinder correction on two different axis
for my dominant eye. Good luck;
Tony
perfectly sharp focus on the front blade. You need to get a prescription from
your favorite optometrist or opthamologist. Chances are that you will need
Cylinder(astigmatic) correction to bring the front blade to crystal clear
focus. The prescription should also set the focal point to the exact distance
required. I know because I needed cylinder correction on two different axis
for my dominant eye. Good luck;
Tony
ClearsighT anyone?
Back in the '80s I manufactured the ClearsighT system. Same concept as ShootingSight.
+0.75 diopter over your 20/20 Distance lens will work for most applications in Bullseye shooting. The distance fron the eye to the front sight is usually a bit less than one meter and accommodation makes up for the minor distance correction for the sharp front sight.
Two hand combat shooters with iron sights will need a higher plus correction to get the front sight. Check it out with your eye care doctor.
The advent of "dot" sights in American Bullseye competition killed the market for the ClearsighT... Only the International disciplines still require iron sight and VERY few of us die-hards practice those disciplines. What a shame!
Tillman
quote="ShootingSight"]The notion of fixing your prescription is the single http://nkba.2020.net/planner/UI/Pages/VPUI.htmbiggest fix you can make, however dime store reading glasses is the wrong answer.
As an engineer who studied optics, and a photographer who understands depth of field, and as a shooter with bad eyes who feels your pain :-), and as someone who started a small business selling corrective lenses to pistol and rifle shooters, I have gone through the optical math, and the correct answer for pistol shooting is that you need a lens that is +0.75 diopters stronger than your distance correction.
For instance, if you are near sighted, the sphere value in your prescription will be a negative number, like -1.75. For a shooting lens, you add +0.75 to arrive at a -1.00 lens for shooting.
This lens will bring your relaxed focal point back to 1.33 meters, which is the hyperfocal distance of the rear sight for most shooters, so the rear sight is just inside the near edge of your depth of field, and the target is just inside the far edge of your depth of field, so you can see them both at the same time with equal clarity. Your front sight will be solidly inside your depth of field, so it will be a little bit sharper than either the rear or the target, which is what most pistol shooters prefer.
Unfortunately, reading glasses typically start at +1.25, so these are much too strong. You get a great sight picture, but the target is too blurry.
Based on this power, you can get custom glasses made. I offer safety glasses for $90 that have two lenses inserted inside safety glasses. BJones also makes shooter frames that are designed to sit crooked on your face to centralize the lens for shooting for $65 with 1 corrective and 1 'flat' lens, or I think he is $95 if you get 2 corrective lenses.
Or, take an old set of glasses to your eye doc, and have him replace just the shooting eye lens with your most current prescription with a +0.75 added to it. Make sure to get a single power lens - do not get a progressive lens for shooting.
Another option I make that is $50 is a +0.75 lens mounted to a clip, that you would simply clip on to your glasses. I don't love that solution, but only make it because several people have asked for it. It does not manage the safety issue, it leaves you looking through 2 lenses, which can create internal refelctions ... meh. It works, but I think it is a Rube Goldberg solution.
Art Neergaard
ShootingSight LLC[/quote]
+0.75 diopter over your 20/20 Distance lens will work for most applications in Bullseye shooting. The distance fron the eye to the front sight is usually a bit less than one meter and accommodation makes up for the minor distance correction for the sharp front sight.
Two hand combat shooters with iron sights will need a higher plus correction to get the front sight. Check it out with your eye care doctor.
The advent of "dot" sights in American Bullseye competition killed the market for the ClearsighT... Only the International disciplines still require iron sight and VERY few of us die-hards practice those disciplines. What a shame!
Tillman
quote="ShootingSight"]The notion of fixing your prescription is the single http://nkba.2020.net/planner/UI/Pages/VPUI.htmbiggest fix you can make, however dime store reading glasses is the wrong answer.
As an engineer who studied optics, and a photographer who understands depth of field, and as a shooter with bad eyes who feels your pain :-), and as someone who started a small business selling corrective lenses to pistol and rifle shooters, I have gone through the optical math, and the correct answer for pistol shooting is that you need a lens that is +0.75 diopters stronger than your distance correction.
For instance, if you are near sighted, the sphere value in your prescription will be a negative number, like -1.75. For a shooting lens, you add +0.75 to arrive at a -1.00 lens for shooting.
This lens will bring your relaxed focal point back to 1.33 meters, which is the hyperfocal distance of the rear sight for most shooters, so the rear sight is just inside the near edge of your depth of field, and the target is just inside the far edge of your depth of field, so you can see them both at the same time with equal clarity. Your front sight will be solidly inside your depth of field, so it will be a little bit sharper than either the rear or the target, which is what most pistol shooters prefer.
Unfortunately, reading glasses typically start at +1.25, so these are much too strong. You get a great sight picture, but the target is too blurry.
Based on this power, you can get custom glasses made. I offer safety glasses for $90 that have two lenses inserted inside safety glasses. BJones also makes shooter frames that are designed to sit crooked on your face to centralize the lens for shooting for $65 with 1 corrective and 1 'flat' lens, or I think he is $95 if you get 2 corrective lenses.
Or, take an old set of glasses to your eye doc, and have him replace just the shooting eye lens with your most current prescription with a +0.75 added to it. Make sure to get a single power lens - do not get a progressive lens for shooting.
Another option I make that is $50 is a +0.75 lens mounted to a clip, that you would simply clip on to your glasses. I don't love that solution, but only make it because several people have asked for it. It does not manage the safety issue, it leaves you looking through 2 lenses, which can create internal refelctions ... meh. It works, but I think it is a Rube Goldberg solution.
Art Neergaard
ShootingSight LLC[/quote]