New to air rifle shooting, questions on my accuracy

[harmoniums]

Hi guys, this year I decided I as going to shoot A LOT more.
(I'm a center-fire guy usually)
Getting to the range is at most a once a month thing, I have young kids and like to spend my weekends with them and help out the missus.

Soooo I bought an air rifle and pellet trap and set up a range (8.5 meters on the diagonal in my garage) to practice at.

The rifle I bought was an IZH-60.
I sucked at it until I heard about the artillery hold and then managed to get my groups down to 0.4 of an inch on average (10 shot) with an all time best of 0.270 inches. This is in sitting position.

After hearing about how spring rifles recoil before the pellet even moves, I got interested in PCP, but I had no money, so I bought a used Daisy 853 from the CMP for 100 bucks instead (single stroke pneumatic).

The trigger is gritty in comparison to the IZH, but I kinda like fighting it, it keeps me very focused on my sight picture, small corrections and trying my best not to jerk the trigger over all its hills and valleys before it breaks.

My groups shrunk in comparison to the IZH, I get 0.250 inches all day long for each 10 shot string (except when I jerk the trigger and get a called flyer)

I decided yesterday to shoot off a bag and see how I do, and was shocked to see the same 0.250 inch group.

Is this the best the rifle can do?
Is it my pellet choice? Meunsterkeugel (sic) 7.0 grain wadcutters

[Bowman26]

There are trigger mod how to do online if you look for them. I think one of the popular one is on Pilks site. You also might want to try some 8gr pellets in the rifle it might help with accuracy a bit depending on the barrel of course. The 7gr pellets are more pistol related. The brand you are using I have never heard of if that is indeed the correct spelling. Here is what I shoot RWS Meisterkugeln Rifle .177 Cal, 8.2 Grains. Try a few others and see if they might also give you more accuracy. Like any other ammo/rifle/barrel they can be sensitive to one type of ammo over another.



Good luck..

Bo

[redschietti]

It takes pellet/barrel testing to get groups under 6mm. By that I mean testing specific lot numbers, not brands or sizes. Id guess a 6.3 or 6.4 mm (.25 in) group is typical, or maybe even on the small side, for unselected ammo at 10 meters, but your under 10 meters, so maybe should be smaller than that

[jhmartin]

The experience I have with the Daisy pump rifles ... 753/853/953 ... is that they shoot a pistol pellet better than a rifle pellet. The rifle pellets are just a tad heavy to get moving to a velocity above about 480fps. The pistol pellets will get above 490fps and also be able to punch cleaner holes in the target paper due to the higher velocity.

If you are working a line at a match or practice, you can almost always tell when a pump rifle is on the line shooting rifle pellets ... there is a very definite time differential between the "pop" of the rifle and the "plat" of the pellet hitting the target. On the PCP rifles that are shooting above 530fps or so, it seems like the same sound.

[gwsb]

I don't know much about this rifle but in checking it out I believe it probably is the best it will do. A $130 air rifle with open sights just isn't going to shoot 10 ring groups. It might be a good training tool for a high power shooter during the winter but I don't believe you can expect tight groups with it.

That said I understand not everybody can or wants to shell out $4 grand for a top of the line FWB. Its just one of life's endless tradeoffs.

[DLS]

I have two 853's now, just got one of the CMP rebuilds. My boys are shooting them.

Both shoot one large ragged hole at 10m when clamped. Granted it's a large hole, but it's a hole none-the-less. This is using the CMP brokered Vogel practice pellets.

It's not up to the specs of my LG210 by any means (especially the triggers) but at this level of accuracy they could "possibly" clean a 10m target.

I've heard many other reports along the same lines. So for the price these guns are pretty amazing if you ask me!

[harmoniums]

I have two 853's now, just got one of the CMP rebuilds. My boys are shooting them.

Both shoot one large ragged hole at 10m when clamped. Granted it's a large hole, but it's a hole none-the-less. This is using the CMP brokered Vogel practice pellets.

It's not up to the specs of my LG210 by any means (especially the triggers) but at this level of accuracy they could "possibly" clean a 10m target.

I've heard many other reports along the same lines. So for the price these guns are pretty amazing if you ask me!

Can you measure the diameter of the hole?
Is it better than 0.25?
I just want to know when I've become good enough to be limited by the rifle

[redschietti]

If you are shooting as well as the gun shoots off a bag then you are there! Id bet a six pack that pellet testing will find a pellet that shoots better than what you have. PM me if you like..I only know one person that may pellet test more than me!!

[DLS]

[quote="harmoniumsCan you measure the diameter of the hole?
Is it better than 0.25?[/quote]

I probably won't be putting the guns in a vise again anytime soon as it's a bit of a pain. I didn't measure the groups when I ran this test but the ragged holes were probably around 1 3/4 times the pellet diameter, so they would be in the .300 inch range edge to edge. That was good enough for me.

To obliterate the 10 "spot" on the 10m target you need the rifle to shoot twice the pellet diameter minus the 10 spot diameter. Since that is .334 edge to edge and the rifle is grouping less that that, the rifles can clean the target. So misses are gong to be from other factors than the inherit accuracy of the gun.

So, until my boys are routinely shooting inner 10's the rifle's accuracy will not be a limiting factor. Sights, trigger, etc. well that's another story!

[Jason]

To obliterate the 10 "spot" on the 10m target you need the rifle to shoot twice the pellet diameter minus the 10 spot diameter. Since that is .334 edge to edge and the rifle is grouping less that that, the rifles can clean the target. So misses are gong to be from other factors than the inherit accuracy of the gun.

We shoot the 853 with sling and jacket in the Cadet program in Canada and the top shooters regularly shoot 98+ on our 10 metre targets and around 10 mm for a 5-shot grouping (both in prone). Our 10 dot is a hair bigger than the ISSF dot but the groupings don't lie. And we're not allowed to modify the triggers either, so the rifles can shoot -- you just need to practice, practice and practice some more.

Shooting the 853 standing is another game altogether!

Jason

[harmoniums]

To obliterate the 10 "spot" on the 10m target you need the rifle to shoot twice the pellet diameter minus the 10 spot diameter. Since that is .334 edge to edge and the rifle is grouping less that that, the rifles can clean the target. So misses are gong to be from other factors than the inherit accuracy of the gun.

We shoot the 853 with sling and jacket in the Cadet program in Canada and the top shooters regularly shoot 98+ on our 10 metre targets and around 10 mm for a 5-shot grouping (both in prone). Our 10 dot is a hair bigger than the ISSF dot but the groupings don't lie. And we're not allowed to modify the triggers either, so the rifles can shoot -- you just need to practice, practice and practice some more.

Shooting the 853 standing is another game altogether!

Jason

So I can do a 5 shot 5mm group all day long sitting, my prone is always better, so I think I'm at the limit for this rifle.
Regardless, as I'm poor, I'll keep on my 40 shots a night schedule until I see NO flyers!

Incidentally, my standing really really sucks so I guess I have plenty of room to grow there with this rifle.