Need to replace my Supermatch 54 buttplate

artandscience · Post by **artandscience** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:25 pm

Hello all,

Returning to smallbore prone after quite a few years off. I'm still shooting in the low 590s (592-594) and think that I could probably get a wee improvement by changing out my free rifle buttplate for a more modern design.

Any suggestions for a buttplate (for prone only) that will bolt on to the Supermatch 54 (vintage 1972)? I've included a photo of what mine looks like (not the actual one but identical).

I just don't feel the current buttplate locates as consistently in my shoulder as I would like and this seems like a worthwhile change.

regards,
Stefan
Seattle, WA

mtncwru · Post by **mtncwru** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:04 am

The current stock on my rifle started with that same vintage buttplate, and I had the same issue. The original buttplate had all the pressure on one spot of my shoulder which was SUPER uncomfortable. I swapped it out for an Anschutz 4765 buttplate with the 8510 (Precise) guideplate. It took a little creative engineering to mount it, but a couple screws with washers later I was in business. I'll try to get some photos up tomorrow.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:23 am

I too switched to the 4765 buttplate, before upgrading my stock - so I now have a gemini stock and buttplate. To be honest, I found the 4765 a little better and easier to fit, but the gemini also seems to work well.

Rob.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:24 am

I have found the older Anschutz butt (as pictured) doesn't adjust high enough for me, so like Mtncwru all the pressure is at one point at the top.

The current Anschutz 4765 should bolt straight onto your carrier (the black steel part), so long as you have the vertical mounting rod. I did this recently with an SKP prone plate, which uses the same vertical mounting rod.

Alternatives to the 4765 would be the older Anschutz 4760, which was used in the 1980s and '90s on the 1813 and 1913. The System Gemini is very good (www.rifle-maker.com), I've used one for the last ten years. It can be bolted onto the carrier, or directly into the base using the rods supplied. I imagine the MEC and TEC-HRO butts could be fitted as well. If you are only shooting prone, and don't want a hook, there is the SKP from New Zealand.

Cumbrian · Post by **Cumbrian** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:37 am

I would endorse the idea of using the Gemini butt plate and hook, perhaps with the extended raiser bar, though it is not cheap and will need a bit of fitting to make secure in the wood of the Supermatch, if you fit it directly. I have done this and it works very well.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:01 am

I had a Gemini butt on both an 1813 and a 1407, and don't recall any need for fitting. It should be the same for a '72 Supermatch. With a Supermatch, the Gemini can use the existing base. Pull out the existing buttplate and extension rods. Then screw the supplied rods onto the Gemini, and slot these into the aluminium baseplate on the rifle. Tighten up the locking nut at the top (or bottom for newer rifles), and it's done.

With the 1407 it screwed straight on, using the existing bushings, once the plastic factory butt had been removed.

artandscience · Post by **artandscience** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:29 am

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. Off to look at the Gemini buttplate.

S.

artandscience · Post by **artandscience** » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:10 pm

I take the recommendations are stronger for the Aktiv buttplate than for the standard buttplate?

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:15 am

artandscience wrote:I take the recommendations are stronger for the Aktiv buttplate than for the standard buttplate?

Yes because you can adjust it more to get a better fit. Just be mindful of the rules should you shoot ISSF competitions. In that case the upper curve of the buttplate can only extend rearwards 25mm.

Rob.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:56 am

The standard buttplate was developed to meet UIT rules for 10m air rifle and 50m standard rifle, as an improvement on a basic rubber buttplate. You can certainly use it for 50m prone; it's used with Gemini fullbore/palma rifles as GB-NRA rules do not allow hook butts for this discipline, but it won't give you the same fit as the Free rifle butt, as it is much smaller and lacks the facility to offset the butt laterally or cant it.

Rob is quite right that you have to watch the curvature of the heel (top) plate. Gemini free butts now come as standard with a double joint, what they call a cantilever. The heel plate generally won't meet the ISSF's 25mm depth rule with the cantilever inserted. It can be removed very quickly with a 4mm allen key.

artandscience · Post by **artandscience** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:13 am

Yep.. I'm familiar with that rule as I've had to be careful in the NRA for my fullbore matches (I use a standard Gemini buttplate for my Palma guns) and have had competitors complain about it (25mm rule).

I'll give the Aktiv a try.

Cumbrian · Post by **Cumbrian** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:18 pm

Tim S wrote:I had a Gemini butt on both an 1813 and a 1407, and don't recall any need for fitting. It should be the same for a '72 Supermatch. With a Supermatch, the Gemini can use the existing base. Pull out the existing buttplate and extension rods. Then screw the supplied rods onto the Gemini, and slot these into the aluminium baseplate on the rifle. Tighten up the locking nut at the top (or bottom for newer rifles), and it's done.

With the 1407 it screwed straight on, using the existing bushings, once the plastic factory butt had been removed.

I guess it depends on your height and reach. I'm 5' 10'' and found that I had to attach the Gemini directly to the wood with two screws to get the overall length short enough to suit me. That meant that I also had to turn two aluminium inserts to hold the Gemini's rods in the wood, for which I required a lathe and some assistance. If you are tall enough, using the Anschutz base plate is obviously the easiest option.

dlinden · Post by **dlinden** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:55 pm

How well do the upper or lower wings of the Gemini plate hold up to the recoil of fullbore rifles? Any tendency to flatten out?

Dennis L

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:05 am

dlinden wrote:How well do the upper or lower wings of the Gemini plate hold up to the recoil of fullbore rifles? Any tendency to flatten out?

Dennis L

I can't comment as I don't shoot full bore. I guess if you've got the but plate set up properly the recoil should be fairly well distributed and shouldn't force the wings back. I'm sure it also depends on how tight you screw the holding bolts in.

Rob.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:47 am

dlinden wrote:How well do the upper or lower wings of the Gemini plate hold up to the recoil of fullbore rifles? Any tendency to flatten out?

Dennis L

Again, not a fullbore shooter for many years, but I dont think the top plate would flatten, as for the bottom most have a hook. The recoil should be taken in the centre, not on the top plate, it is really just for guidance. I can imagine the recoil shaking some of the screws loose if using a larger cartridge. A few GB-NRA Match rifle shooters use them, as do 300m, so it can be done.

dlinden · Post by **dlinden** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:25 am

Actually, it is a big consideration and not as described. Various buttplate wings will flatten out. One of the exceptions is the Bleiker which is stout and has a very strong attachment mechanism. Some of the plates will just have the screws strip out when tightened significantly.

Part of the issue is recoil, the other is dependent on how tight a position in the should one has. There is a bottom wing that has nothing to do with a hook as seen in the photo several posts above.

Dennis L

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:06 am

Dennis,

I think I understand what you mean, if the top plate is taking any of the recoil force, then it folding flat would be a serious consideration. However the top plate on the Gemini isn't meant to be load bearing; it follows the curve of the top of the shoulder, rather than being pressed aainst the shoulder like say the MEC. The shoulder should bear against the flat sections.

As for the hook, this is the standard fitting at the bottom; the cantilever toe plate is only optional, but again, it's there to guide the plate into the correct position, not to take recoil.

Tim

artandscience · Post by **artandscience** » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:13 pm

I use the standard buttplate on my fullbore rifle (.308). It does indeed flatten during recoil. However, the set screw only allows it to flatten so much and so it still works (when adjusted properly).

I think I'll sadly go with the Anschutz 4765-U4 as pricing out the Aktiv with Robert came to over $500 with the current exchange rate.

However, I'm not quite sure that it will be a savings unless I can use my current 1413 carrier with the 2213 guide plate and the 4765-U4. Anyone done this?

If I can, it will save me about $150.. I think at least one person said that the 4765 assembly doesn't give up anything to the Aktiv buttplate?

Thanks,
Stefan

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:10 am

Stefan,

you should not need to replace the existing extension rods to fit the 4765 butt. If the 2213 guide plate does not fit directly, you could remove the vertical rod (onto which the 4765 butt clamps), and fit the rod directly onto the 1413 extension.

As for 4765 v Gemini, I think the Gemini is better, and offers a closer fit, especially at the top of the shoulder, although with the ISSF 25mm rule, the difference is lessened. This is not to say the 4765 is bad; I would much rather have the 4765 than the original 1413 butt.

artandscience · Post by **artandscience** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:04 pm

Tim,

it looks like doable and at $300, it turns out to be quite a bit cheaper than the Aktiv buttplate.

Thanks for all the input..

Stefan

TargetTalk

Need to replace my Supermatch 54 buttplate

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