Hello all,
I'm just really starting to play the 10m game. I've shot highpower silhouette, OTC and LR for years. I've used a Walther LG210 for standing practice but the focus has always been improving my standing scores in OTC shooting and silhouette.
Now I'm getting serious about 10m. I'm using Ian Pellant's software to print 6m training targets so that I can shoot indoors at home. I'm curious as to how much difference in score I could expect between the scores I'm now shooting at 6m and those I'd shoot at 10m.
For the centerfire games, reduced targets are used all the time, and pretty much relate well to full distance scores (assuming no wind).
So I'm wondering what difference, if any is noted by those of you here that have been at this longer than I. I'll formulate my own answers in a few months when I can shoot outdoors, but for now I prefer to stay dry and warm and would like to satisfy my curiosity.
Thanks!
Score differences with 6m targets ...
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
There will be a slight difference in score as while the target is scaled down, the projectile you shoot at it is not.
Example: On a 50m smallbore target scaled down to 50ft (which we use all the time) you have to completely take out the center dot ... not just touch it.
Same on the lines, you basically have to cut the whole line.
If you look at 50 ft as roughly 1/3 the distance to 50m, then to replicate the hole in the 50 ft target, the hole would have to be about 3x the size on the 50m target ... so if you go by the same rules of scoring the smaller target at a closer distance is easier with the same sized projectile
Example: On a 50m smallbore target scaled down to 50ft (which we use all the time) you have to completely take out the center dot ... not just touch it.
Same on the lines, you basically have to cut the whole line.
If you look at 50 ft as roughly 1/3 the distance to 50m, then to replicate the hole in the 50 ft target, the hole would have to be about 3x the size on the 50m target ... so if you go by the same rules of scoring the smaller target at a closer distance is easier with the same sized projectile
Generally when scaling targets one would expect the scoring rings to be scaled taking into account the constant bullet diameter (or different caliber if that might be the case for training targets). For example here in the UK almost all of our domestic NSRA smallbore targets are scaled to the ISSF 50m target (even the 100 yard one). The aiming mark is not a problem as you can scale that exactly.
Our short range targets are shot at either 15 20 or 25 yards, with 25 yards being the most common. If you reduce the ISSF 50m target proportionally to 15 yards (45 feet) one hits a snag, the ten ring has to actually be negatively sized! The NSRA get around this by using outwards gauging on their targets, so if you completely cut the line on the outside then you score the lower score. Personally I think this is easier to score than having a bull that is smaller than the bullet diameter that you have to totally obliterate. In theory it is even possible to have decimal scoring with outwards gauging.
Now the odd thing is that as far as NSRA rifle targets go, the only target that is not scaled to a relevant ISSF target, is the 6 yard Air Rifle, which used to have scoring rings about the same actual size as the pre 89 UIT/ISU 10m target. The NSRA 6 yard target did not change in 1989, so now anyone shooting at 6 yards is actually shooting at larger scoring rings than they would be using at 10m!
Alan
Our short range targets are shot at either 15 20 or 25 yards, with 25 yards being the most common. If you reduce the ISSF 50m target proportionally to 15 yards (45 feet) one hits a snag, the ten ring has to actually be negatively sized! The NSRA get around this by using outwards gauging on their targets, so if you completely cut the line on the outside then you score the lower score. Personally I think this is easier to score than having a bull that is smaller than the bullet diameter that you have to totally obliterate. In theory it is even possible to have decimal scoring with outwards gauging.
Now the odd thing is that as far as NSRA rifle targets go, the only target that is not scaled to a relevant ISSF target, is the 6 yard Air Rifle, which used to have scoring rings about the same actual size as the pre 89 UIT/ISU 10m target. The NSRA 6 yard target did not change in 1989, so now anyone shooting at 6 yards is actually shooting at larger scoring rings than they would be using at 10m!
Alan
I tend to agree with Rover. If targets are scaled just for size (and not rings) then I'd tend to go with something like 10-15 points in my mind, but that's really just a mental thing. I'd see what the real world scores averaged out across the 2 different targets to get a better impression, if I were really interested. But as Rover says, score is pretty much irrelevant in training.
Rob.
Rob.
Thanks gentlemen for your responses.
I understand factoring projectile size when scaling targets. The highpower reduced targets do this, I doubt it's done with the Ian Pellant software though. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'll pull out my calipers and see if this is so.
Thanks for the guess of 10-15 points. That's what I was looking for, just some rough idea.
I agree that the difference is irrelevant in training, but was curious as to what I'd see once I go to 10m.
I do keep track of my scores on all my 6m targets, as comparing the scores to other 6m targets gives me useful feedback since I'm comparing like results to like results.
This has been more fun that I would have thought, the very precise 10m game! I'm discovering the subtle differences between an ISSF style hold and tension type hold necessary shooting outside in the wind with a 3.5 pound trigger. It's a different animal for sure!
Thanks again!
Lee
I understand factoring projectile size when scaling targets. The highpower reduced targets do this, I doubt it's done with the Ian Pellant software though. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'll pull out my calipers and see if this is so.
Thanks for the guess of 10-15 points. That's what I was looking for, just some rough idea.
I agree that the difference is irrelevant in training, but was curious as to what I'd see once I go to 10m.
I do keep track of my scores on all my 6m targets, as comparing the scores to other 6m targets gives me useful feedback since I'm comparing like results to like results.
This has been more fun that I would have thought, the very precise 10m game! I'm discovering the subtle differences between an ISSF style hold and tension type hold necessary shooting outside in the wind with a 3.5 pound trigger. It's a different animal for sure!
Thanks again!
Lee
Thanks gentlemen for your responses.
I understand factoring projectile size when scaling targets. The highpower reduced targets do this, I doubt it's done with the Ian Pellant software though. now that I'm thinking about it.
I'll pull my calipers out and see if this is so,
Thanks for the guess of 10-15 points. I agree that it's irrelevant in training, but was curious as to what I'd see once I go to 10m. I do keep track of my scores on the 6m, as comparing the scores to other 6m targets gives me useful feedback as to how my training is progressing.
I understand factoring projectile size when scaling targets. The highpower reduced targets do this, I doubt it's done with the Ian Pellant software though. now that I'm thinking about it.
I'll pull my calipers out and see if this is so,
Thanks for the guess of 10-15 points. I agree that it's irrelevant in training, but was curious as to what I'd see once I go to 10m. I do keep track of my scores on the 6m, as comparing the scores to other 6m targets gives me useful feedback as to how my training is progressing.
Just in case you try to print your own correctly reduced targets, you may use excel file given here:
http://www.lfits.pl/highnoon/gg_tt.zip
http://www.lfits.pl/highnoon/gg_tt.zip
Another good "scource" for print your own scaled targets is the SCATT system software. It's a free download, and has an option to print many different target types, not just ISSF ones. What's even better is it will allow you to scale them to just about any distance you want to fit with using the SCATT hardware, which you do not need. It even offeres the choice of printing the aiming mark without the scoring rings, which is handy when dry training at really short ranges. The rings can end up causing some really odd aliasing effects otherwise.
Hope this is useful and sorry I do not have the link, just Google SCATT.
Alan
Hope this is useful and sorry I do not have the link, just Google SCATT.
Alan