Weight distribution between elbows in prone

Johan_85 · Post by **Johan_85** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:57 am

For a right handed shooter what weight distribution between the elbows do you have.

I see many recommendations that you should have your weight almost exclusively on your left elbow.

For me it feels like it's hard to be consistent in putting the weight on the right elbow.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:58 am

Hi Johan,

I think you will get a lot of different answers to your question.

Personally I like to have a little weight on my right elbow, as I find it's then easier to settle down consistently. Too little weight, and it's harder for me to find the balance. But I don't want too much weight on my right arm, so my position doesn't move much as I load. I don't think I could describe the balance with a percentage.

This can be tricky thing to get right, and I think the distribution varies greatly with individual physique. I find it difficult as I'm tall with long arms, but medium build. My posiiton tends to be low, and my right elbow is well out, so it doesn't naturally have a lot of weight on it.

Tim

DLS · Post by **DLS** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:25 am

For me the only pressure on my right elbow is from the weight of a relaxed arm only. I build my position so that my loading arm is totally free to move and imparts no movement in the rest of the position when it is moved.

I come from years of shooing LR and High-power so my experience may not apply to Olympic style shooting, with which I'm just starting to play.

For across the course shooting I've heard from some that you should have loading arm pressure to help stabilize your position when shooting in the wind, but I don't find wind to affect the prone position enough to worry about. Now sight setting and wind are a totally different issue! I always find a was to mess up there!

Johan_85 · Post by **Johan_85** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:08 am

One problem for me is that the weight distribution varies and that is probably a cause of me tipping over to the left and sometimes right and when doing that placing my right elbow in different places.

It's something I need to learn at my training sessions to just lower the right arm after reloading and not drag it in or spread it out more.

I like prone because I like to do things perfect and be able to repeat the perfection and get long strings of perfect shots but at the same time it can drive me crazy when I'm chasing that perfection.

I like SCATT training because there you can see how much you do right but a little error can make the end result suffer, this is harder to see when shooting only live fire.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:40 am

From a stability perspective, I would suggest a reasonable weight distribution across the triangle created by both elbows and abdomen would seem to confer the most stability to the position. It will of course vary from person to person and the position of the rifle relative to the left elbow. For myself I shoot with a fair amount of weight on the right elbow but not quite as much as the left. It certainly feels solidly planted on the mat such that it can't move at all.

Rob.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:02 am

I have a reasonable amount of weight on my trigger hand elbow. I've even moved it in slightly recently, putting more weight on it, and have found the results are better. It's crucial that the shoulder can remain relaxed and supported by the elbow, but the forearm must be free and relaxed as well, into the pistol grip, and the elbow shouldn't prop up or push the shoulder either, just support it. For me, keeping that arrangement in harmony is about the most important single group of balances to shoot good prone.

rachel · Post by **rachel** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:31 am

Ask ten different shooters the same question and you'll get ten different answers :)

I only have the weight of my right arm on my right elbow and I often check during prep that I can remove my right arm from the rifle completely and still stay on target. The weight of the rifle is exclusively through my left elbow and I keep balanced by making sure that my 'triangle points' are stable and don't move at all. My 'triangle points' are my left elbow, left hip bone and right knee.

Johan_85 · Post by **Johan_85** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:27 am

Is it so that a higher position puts more weight on the right elbow and a low position must be without any weight on the right elbow?

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:35 am

Johan,

yes to a degree. Normally with a high position, there is less (even no) contact between the chest and the ground, so there has to be more weight on the elbows. Normally with a low position, the chest is supported by the ground, taking weight off the elbows. Guy Starik is a good example; he is very low, with low flat shoulders, and his right elbow is well out. He looks to have very little weight there.

But, you can have the rifle low, and the right shoulder much higher; look at Henri Junghaenel. His rifle is low, his left arm is stretched well out , but his right shoulder is much high, and his right elbow is close to his body. Looks can be deceptive, but there appears to be some weight on the elbow, even if it is just the weight of his shoulder,

Johan_85 · Post by **Johan_85** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:05 pm

One problem that I have in prone is that when I fully relax my NPA goes up and to the left at 10-11 O'clock. I have for a long time wondered why this happen. I think I have found the problem and it seems like when I fully relax I roll over to my right and my right shoulder then collapses and I end up pointing a little high and to the left. I can't move my body to get my NPA to the 10 ring, the problem is there how small or big amount I move my body.

I have tried to draw my right knee up more and that helps a little. I have tried to put my left elbow more under the rifle but that doesn't help and when I do that the whole position gets destroyed. I have tried to draw my right elbow in some more and that also helps a little but not so much.

Any ideas on a solution for this problem?

redschietti · Post by **redschietti** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:41 pm

Move the buttplate to get the elevation correct. Then have somebody rotate the prone mat w you on it to get the windage correct.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:16 pm

Try bring in the trigger hand elbow slightly, along with loosening the sling a bit. If needs be, try move the handstop forward or backwards until it settles fully and you just have easy, natural and vertical movement.

Johan_85 · Post by **Johan_85** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:37 am

Dave IRL wrote:Try bring in the trigger hand elbow slightly, along with loosening the sling a bit. If needs be, try move the handstop forward or backwards until it settles fully and you just have easy, natural and vertical movement.

Can you describe in more detail why you think I should do the changes you suggested? Why I'm interested in that is because it's easier for me to understand when I have found the right settings.

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:10 am

For me, when I had a similar problem, relaxing in position was pushing the rifle in that direction as my shoulder settled forward. Bringing in the elbow supports the shoulder a little more directly. It shouldn't slump forward at all. Similarly, I had to loosen my sling a little because it was pulling the wrist slightly to the outside of the position. It wasn't a dramatic change, but it did make a difference. Now, as a result I brought up my knee further to keep pressure in the shoulder and raised the buttplate to keep the elevation right on target, but now I get a smooth, vertical breathing pattern that settles on target, my hold is better and I'm more relaxed around the neck and shoulder, meaning better, more representative results. If you look at Henry Junghaenel's position you'll see a lot of the same principles. Really strong, controlling position, but he's visibly relaxed, not carrying tension through it.

Johan_85 · Post by **Johan_85** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:56 am

Dave IRL wrote:For me, when I had a similar problem, relaxing in position was pushing the rifle in that direction as my shoulder settled forward. Bringing in the elbow supports the shoulder a little more directly. It shouldn't slump forward at all. Similarly, I had to loosen my sling a little because it was pulling the wrist slightly to the outside of the position. It wasn't a dramatic change, but it did make a difference. Now, as a result I brought up my knee further to keep pressure in the shoulder and raised the buttplate to keep the elevation right on target, but now I get a smooth, vertical breathing pattern that settles on target, my hold is better and I'm more relaxed around the neck and shoulder, meaning better, more representative results. If you look at Henry Junghaenel's position you'll see a lot of the same principles. Really strong, controlling position, but he's visibly relaxed, not carrying tension through it.

Okay, that was a good explanation. Thank you.

I will try that and see if it helps me.

Johan_85 · Post by **Johan_85** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:36 pm

I've tried Dave IRL suggestions and it feels a little better but the problem still exists.

I can get my NPA exactly in the middle but then after I reload I need to make many small adjustments in my arms and shoulders to get my NPA in the middle. It feels like my right shoulder is pushing the rifle forward and to the left after I've reloaded and to get it right again I need to draw my shoulder back and at the same time press the rifle over to the right with my left arm then I can relax and check my NPA and often I need to repeat that step 2-4 times.

A rough estimation is that it takes between 50 to 80 seconds between shots if I make adjustments so I can be totally relaxed and having my NPA in the middle.