Walther or Anschutz front dovetail?

[LennyLames]

Hi, everyone. I'm new to rifles, and so new to smallbore that my Walther KK300 is only arriving tomorrow.
I will install bloop tube/tuner and that will provide me an opportunity to switch dovetails.
If I get a tuner/tube with Walther dovetail, I can use the front globe sight that came with the rifle.
If I get tube with Anshcutz dovetail, it appears I will have wider range of tubes (US tuner makers use Anschutz dovetails) & accessories available in US, such as 22 mm globe front, risers, etc.
Any other criteria that I should consider?

[LennyLames]

Thank you for the informative PMs.

I was able to get the schematics for the Walther dovetail and am posting it here. If prohibited. go ahead and delete.

How does a tube affect the original sight alignment when the original front sight is moved to the end of the tube? Presumably, a tube would cause the Point of Impact to go lower because the tube would be parallel to, and have a larger diameter than the barrel.

The question is relevant to my original post because I'm trying to determine what attachments I may clamp on to the front dovetail. Why would I need a riser block, for instance? I know it's possible to go overboard with all kinds of accessories. If I use the original Walther front sight on a Walther-dovetailed tube, would I still be able to use a front iris in it? My plan is to just change the insert, but an iris may be in the future.

[Tim S]

When I first fitted a tube I remember my elevation zero being way out. The reason I was given was that moving the foresight out changed its effective height. I know of some shooters whom have put a 4mm raiser block under the rearsight to compensate for the vertcial POI effect of a tube withing turning lots of clicks.

Why use raisers? The main use is to raise the sightline (front and rear) for a more comfotable head position. Raisers are mostly used in the standing and kneeling positions, where the head naturally sits higher above the barrel, but are often used in prone, especially with aluminium stocked rifles. These are much more shallow in the fore-end than a traditional wood stock, and normally sit much lower in the hand (unless the handstop is brought back) so raisers are fitted to bring the sightline back to a "normal" height.

Raisers can also be used to off-set the sightline by a few mm as an alternative to canting (either way is a method of shifting the sights further left for wide-faced shooters). Some blocks can be used to fit say an Anschutz foresight to a Walther barrel (or vice versa).

Your Walther should have a Centra foresight which accepts standard M18 (Anschutz size) elements. M18 irises should just screw in.

[DLS]

Could you post the gist of the PM's you received?

I love to read and learn on all aspects of shooting, even if I'm not in that area right now. For instance I never would have thought I'd be interested in 10 meter shooting, but now am solidly into the game.

I've been reading this forum for years even though it was not my game until recently. I've learned a great deal that crossed over to my other disciplines as well as increased my general knowledge base.

I'd like to hear the answers you received to your questions.

Thanks.

[Eric U]

Your Walther dovetail schematic is great. First I've seen reference to the correct 70* dovetail angle. Everyone ASSUMES that it is 60* like all the others....

I haven't found that extending the sight radius changes your rear sight elevation enough to worry about. If you have a greatly different tube diameter than your barrel diameter, then you may have elevation issues with your rear sight.

Eric U

[redschietti]

The "knob" on the end of the 300 reverses so you can use either type of front sight. Wish I had known that when I ordered it.

[LennyLames]

Could you post the gist of the PM's you received?

I got information about other equipment options for Walther dovetails that I was not aware of. There's indeed a lot of valuable information in this forum, although I've only gone back to page 28 of the current 81 pages.

When I first fitted a tube I remember my elevation zero being way out.
. . .
Your Walther should have a Centra foresight which accepts standard M18 (Anschutz size) elements. M18 irises should just screw in.

Based on the responses, I'll stay with a Walther front dovetail for the tube/tuner. Minimal incremental value in replacing a perfectly functional front globe sight with a another, where the primary difference is the dovetail mount. I could have justified a front sight replacement by switching from 18 mm to 22 mm front sight, but based on an earlier discussion that I found, 22 mm does not provide signiicant advantages. I also received the rifle today, and the 18 mm sight looks big enough even if I move my eye back 15 inches to emulate a really long tube. Rear iris and perhaps rear riser block would be a higher probability accessory purchase for me.

I'll be spending the next few days experimenting with the prone position to see what lengths of tube are acceptable.

As a side note, the bolt has an interesting feature. It can be uncocked after removal (for storage), and can be (or has to be) cocked prior to re-installation. I don't know if this is common, since this is my first bolt action rifle.

The "knob" on the end of the 300 reverses so you can use either type of front sight. Wish I had known that when I ordered it.

I'm curious about this. I am attaching an exploded view of the KK300 system. Are you referring to Item #2 (Holder)? No matter which way it's oriented, the front sight dovetail is still the same Walther front dovetail.

[redschietti]

Yes #2

Interesting, ours is clearly reversable. W on top and A under.

[LennyLames]

My search for a tuner with a Walther front dovetail is done. I searched everywhere, and had contacted several tuner designers. One was willing to cut the narrower dovetail but the problem was the 70 degree dovetail angle as discussed above.

Some blocks can be used to fit say an Anschutz foresight to a Walther barrel (or vice versa).

I could have used a riser block adapter that I learned about in this discussion, but I decided to go with an actual Walther dovetail.

First option was gtarik's Starik Tube. Very well designed, made by Centra, but the Walther option appears to be in short supply (Guy might be able to find some). The chuck collet attachment method does not require precise measurement of the barrel since the tuner variant for the Walther KK300 barrel is designed for the 26 mm barrel specification, and clamps evenly throughout. I didn't get to handle an actual tuner but I scrutinized several higher resolution photos.

As a side note, the design of the Walther front sight system, where "#2(Holder)" slips onto the muzzle (see diagram and earlier posts herein), requires that the Walther barrel's dimensions, including outside dimensions, be machined very precisely and consistently.

The second option was Eric U's tuner tube. The Walther dovetail is a very new product option. However, the tuner clamp design requires precise measurement of the barrel. Fortunately, see previous paragraph. I did have to make sure I sent the correct outside diameter so I used my caliper, drove to a gunsmith who re-checked my caliper's calibration AND took his own measurements using his own micrometer and caliper. I then drove to another gunsmith to get a third measurement. Fortunately, all 3 sets of measurements were consistent with one another.

It was a difficult choice but in the end, it was the length. Whoever said "size doesn't matter" wasn't referring to extension tubes. After days of practicing the prone position with makeshift weights and extensions, I wanted a 12 inch extension so I went with the Uptagrafft tuner. Of secondary consideration is that Uptagrafft tuner is in the US; not that I'm into protectionism, but I was concerned about possible customs delays and tarrifs.