MEC monocle - lens attachment in front of iris

PhilipM · Post by **PhilipM** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:21 am

I spotted the following product on the MEC website : http://www.mec-shot.de/en/productnews/m ... m/monocle/

Basically it is a fixed correction lens attachment to put the lens in front of the iris which makes wearing glasses superfluous.

Anyone having experience with this system ? Any thoughts on advantages or disadvantages ?

Regards,
Philip

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:31 am

Not legal for ISSF shooting.

Rule 7.4.1.6.a

PhilipM · Post by **PhilipM** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:09 pm

Good to know. MEC should have mentioned this on their website.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:26 pm

Dang .... that rear sight one would be nasty on a 300m gun......

Jordan1s · Post by **Jordan1s** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:50 pm

David Levene wrote:Not legal for ISSF shooting.

Rule 7.4.1.6.a

Personally, I have not read the new rule book myself, however, according to a post made on the tec-hro website, they have stated that these were supposedly made legal in the newest release of the rulebook, hence the reason why more manufacturers(like mec and tec-hro) are starting to promote this item where as in the past, the item was never promoted and became a dust collector in many stores due to it being in violation of ISSF rules. Again, I have not looked at the most recent edition of the rulebook, however, if you are interested in purchasing this product, a peek at the new rules certainly wouldn't hurt.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:03 pm

7.4.1.6 Sights
a) Corrective lenses and telescopes must not be attached to the
rifle;

(V2 just released last week)

Jordan1s · Post by **Jordan1s** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:41 am

jhmartin wrote:7.4.1.6 Sights
a) Corrective lenses and telescopes must not be attached to the
rifle;

(V2 just released last week)

hmmm, perhaps tec-hro and mec saying that they are legal is a marketing strategy to sell some of their unpopular items to customers unaware of the rules haha

BigAl · Post by **BigAl** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:32 am

Although illegal under ISSF rules, these are legal under most countries domestic rules. They are certainly OK in the worlds largest market, where ISSF seems to be a very minority sport (USA). If you are not planning on entering any competitions shot to full ISSF rules it is best to check the rules of your home federation.

I realise that this is an ISSF oriented board, but there still seems to be a fair bit of discussion of non ISSF prone/positional shooting going on, so the product may be relevant for many club level shooters.

Alan

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:43 am

jhmartin wrote:Dang .... that rear sight one would be nasty on a 300m gun......

Hi Joel
The sight is the Centra Spy, I have one on my Walther KK300, and fitted with the MEC/centra Duplex its truly tasty!

MEC does not say or imply the lens mounting is ISSF legal, and they do sell a lot of other kit which is legal for various events and not ISSF.
Good shooting
Robin

DLS · Post by **DLS** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:31 am

This would be a far better arraignment on a center fire rifle. It would allow the shooter to wear proper safety glasses.

While I've never seen it, I'd hate to think what might happen with a pierced primer and Knoblock type glasses, as they offer very little protection.

Rules that preclude this type of tool drive me nuts. Are we conduction shooting competitions or are we conducting "seeing" competitions?

Rant off.

BigAl · Post by **BigAl** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:52 pm

DLS wrote:This would be a far better arraignment on a center fire rifle. It would allow the shooter to wear proper safety glasses.

While I've never seen it, I'd hate to think what might happen with a pierced primer and Knoblock type glasses, as they offer very little protection.

Rules that preclude this type of tool drive me nuts. Are we conduction shooting competitions or are we conducting "seeing" competitions?

Rant off.

I think the ISSF's concern is that if you have a single lens in the rifle, and then wear specs as well what you can end up with is a simple telescope that magnifies the target. In fact that is exactly what the Eagle Eye lens dose. Now the rules could state that one could EITHER wear corrective glasses or use a single lens in the rearsight, but then that starts to get even more complicated. In this case I think a simple no lenses in the sights is actually the best option, as everyone knows where they stand/kneel/lay :). It also makes EC much easier too.

Alan

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:02 pm

RobinC wrote:
jhmartin wrote:Dang .... that rear sight one would be nasty on a 300m gun......
Hi Joel
The sight is the Centra Spy, I have one on my Walther KK300, and fitted with the MEC/centra Duplex its truly tasty!

MEC does not say or imply the lens mounting is ISSF legal, and they do sell a lot of other kit which is legal for various events and not ISSF.
Good shooting
Robin

Robin ... I wasn't commenting on the legality.
Seems a 300m rear sight comes back at you a bit more (and faster) than a smallbore rear sight! That little pokey rod would hurt.

ShootingSight · Post by **ShootingSight** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:35 am

Lenses mounted in the rear sight should be allowed. Mounting in the rear sight is unlikely to create an optical advantage. Yes, you could mount a lens in the rear sight, and also have glasses, but if you are working a system where the lenses are that close, you could equally stack two lenses in your corrective glasses, or wear a contact lens and a pair of corrective glasses, and that combination just does not work.

Besides, I have never seen of heard of any effective telescope where one lens is fixed and the other is in eyeglasses

What should not be allowed is a lens in the front sight for aiming, as here the long eye relief can be used to create a magnification. I understand and agree that magnification of he number boards should be allowed, so a lens up front is OK, but you should have to drill a hole in the middle, so your target image should remain uncorrected.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:00 am

ShootingSight wrote:Lenses mounted in the rear sight should be allowed. ...

And machine rests?

ShootingSight wrote:
Besides, I have never seen of heard of any effective telescope where one lens is fixed and the other is in eyeglasses...

keep researching - particularly regarding Running Target

Ulrich Eichstädt · Post by **Ulrich Eichstädt** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:32 am

ahg-Anschütz also offers a solution like that - in fact I think they were the first to publish it. But ahg only shows it on their german website, not in the english version: http://ahg.anschuetz-sport.com/index.ph ... uktID=1028

These solutions have been accepted by the German Shooting Federation for german competitions. But (due to short ways to the ISSF headquarter) rumour was, that the ISSF would also accept it as soon as possible...

So for Rule V2 from last week it was obviously not possible...

What about your national federations, have they adopted 1:1 copies of the ISSF rules?

At least I assume, that not so many users here really have to care about the rules at international ISSF competions (or World Cup Finals or what to wear when winning an olympic medal...)

The advantage to shooting glasses is, that you always have a straight position of the lens in the sighting line and always the same distance to the peep sight. One can often watch very canted, angled glasses in a match, when shooters with glasses didn't control the vertical position of the lens before. Depending on the magnification and astigmatism of the eye this could cause sighting errors.

Disadvantage? One still has to checke the distance between the lens and the eye, which is not necessary with shooting glasses.

Solution: Invent a large clamp with padded holders, that always keeps head, lens in gun in the same position...

ShootingSight · Post by **ShootingSight** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:26 am

Distance from lens to eye is usually not a big problem for 2 reasons:

1. As long as the lens is behind the iris (ie as long as the rear sight, the front sight, and the target are all in front of the lens), any effects of optical distortion will equally affect all three parts of the image together, and so your zero will see very little effect if you move your head slightly closer or further. You could get a parallax effect if you move your head side-side, however this is also true for glasses.

2. For most people who are only using low powered lenses to make an adjustment for shooting, the vertex distance (from the eye to the lens) is not a strong factor. For people, especially with a strong negative prescription, it is a strong factor, but those people usually use contacts anyhow.

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:53 am

jhmartin wrote: Robin ... I wasn't commenting on the legality.
Seems a 300m rear sight comes back at you a bit more (and faster) than a smallbore rear sight! That little pokey rod would hurt.

Sorry Joel
I missed your point, Yes I agree I'd not want that coming back at me with a centre fire recoil!
I've seen a few ones similar to this and they are quite common in domestic shooting in the UK but the lens is set close to the sight and then the rod is parred off clean.
I use glasses and with various rifles and sights I think its simpler.

ShootingSight · Post by **ShootingSight** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:16 pm

If the topic evolves to other ways to accomplish this, I make a lens holder that screws in between the sight and the rear iris. It not only holds the lens, without pokey wires to shoot your eye out, but it is held in place by a jam-nut. THis allows you to rotate the holder/lens to your desired orientation before locking it in place. If you have an astigmatism and need a cylinder corrected lens, you can rotate the assembly to tune the cylinder axis for clearest vision.

I can also supply lenses, either straight spherical lenses, or cylinder lenses if you have an astigmatism.

http://shootingsight.com/iris.html

Art Neergaard
ShootingSight LLC