Buttplate contacts right pectoral muscle
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bpscCheney
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- Location: Wisconsin
I had that problem as well, being 6'5". I have my plate all the way down and sights all the way up so I had to get a little creative. I pushed my sights further forward, and moved the cocking arm to the other side to facilitate the lever opening without hitting my rear sight. (FWB 700) Works better and can get my face comfortably forward without having to scrunch down to the sights. Might be worth a shot?
When looking at the photo taken from in front of you it looks as if as well as the head tilt in the long axis of the rifle you are also tilting a bit to the side. You seem to have very little cant on the rifle, I think a little more would at least bring your head more upright which may even help with the tipping forwards a little at the same time.
Alan
Alan
You can, however, place the buttplate higher and not have it so deep into the shoulder as now. It's generally a good idea to have it fitted tightly, but if you can't get the rifle high enough you might encounter other problems instead. If you flatten out the lower part of the buttplate a bit and then mount it higher in the shoulder (leaving the upper part with less contact) will raise the rifle up. Yes, the rifle will move more easily in position, but a proper placement of the pistolgrip and cheek piece locks it in pretty well anyway.Johan_85 wrote: I can't raise the sights anymore because then it goes outside the maximum height when shooting under ISSF rules.
Heads up: if the buttplate is lifted higher, you'll also have to find a way to lift the front end up to not end up low on the target. In your case this is as easy as moving the left hand closer to the pistol grip.
I have had my first training session after the changes today and I ended up with the following adjustments.
I flattened the lower part on the buttplate so I could place it a little higher on the arm.
I lowered the cheekpiece to the correct height because it got higher when I mounted the weight there instead of on the buttplate.
Moved my left hand 1cm backwards to get the correct height and to balance the rifle correct. The balance point of the rifle is 2cm in front of my left hand knuckles.
It feels better but the problem is still there I think. I need to shoot some more to be able to analyse these changes.
I flattened the lower part on the buttplate so I could place it a little higher on the arm.
I lowered the cheekpiece to the correct height because it got higher when I mounted the weight there instead of on the buttplate.
Moved my left hand 1cm backwards to get the correct height and to balance the rifle correct. The balance point of the rifle is 2cm in front of my left hand knuckles.
It feels better but the problem is still there I think. I need to shoot some more to be able to analyse these changes.
Problem is not solved but the contact with the chest is less so that is a good thing.
I get the feeling that my left arm(support arm) is pulling the rifle out of my right arm, this makes the NPA to go to the left.
For me the first thought was that the butt is to long, shortening made it worse so that's not it. Lenghtening doesn't make it better but not worse either.
Any thoughts about this problem?
I get the feeling that my left arm(support arm) is pulling the rifle out of my right arm, this makes the NPA to go to the left.
For me the first thought was that the butt is to long, shortening made it worse so that's not it. Lenghtening doesn't make it better but not worse either.
Any thoughts about this problem?
it sounds like the balance point is ahead of your hand but ,......that is only this only the way it sounds.
you describe the balance point very close to your hand .
I had the problem you describe but it was a very heavy gun and too long I sure did and move this balance point much closer to my chest and resolved
you describe the balance point very close to your hand .
I had the problem you describe but it was a very heavy gun and too long I sure did and move this balance point much closer to my chest and resolved
The competitions didn't go so good. But it's always a little hard to shoot good when some major change have been done, in this case lengthening the butt by 19,5mm. This was competitions that I would use as a test, in the middle of january is the competition that I aim at.
In the first competition it felt like I pushed the rifle over to the left a little so I shortened it by 2mm to the second competition and then it felt and behaved much better. If I put my left elbow exactly right and with this butt length then I have good contact with the buttplate and right arm.
In the first competition it felt like I pushed the rifle over to the left a little so I shortened it by 2mm to the second competition and then it felt and behaved much better. If I put my left elbow exactly right and with this butt length then I have good contact with the buttplate and right arm.
Here is a picture that I have drawed that shows my foot position and the pressure on those.
Does it look normal and what is there I can test to overcome the tendency to fall forward against the toes?
How much tension is normally used in the feet?
I need some tension to hold the balance, right or wrong?
I need to rotate my right foot as displayed in the drawing otherwise I get a rotation in the right knee that wants to unlock it all the time.
Does it look normal and what is there I can test to overcome the tendency to fall forward against the toes?
How much tension is normally used in the feet?
I need some tension to hold the balance, right or wrong?
I need to rotate my right foot as displayed in the drawing otherwise I get a rotation in the right knee that wants to unlock it all the time.
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Yes I've tried to move the right foot forward. The problem when I do that is that my hip opens up and my NPA goes to the left. The sole of the boot is pretty straight so there is not much of a slope down towards the toes.EJ wrote:Have you tried moved the right foot forward? and is the heel higher than the front of the shoe?Johan_85 wrote: Does it look normal and what is there I can test to overcome the tendency to fall forward against the toes?
I still have trouble keeping the buttplate against the arm it feels as the left arm pulls it out and it gets worse if I put the elbow higher on the hip and better if I put it lower. I need to experiment with the elbow placement and see if I find any solution there.
I had this problem before, and my position looked very similar to yours, feet included based on your drawings. I ended up reforming my position from the feet all the way up. Now my feet are on the tangent line, right toe pointing inside slightly, and the torso is twisted to the left, with alot more room between my left shoulder and the rifle now. Support elbow sits a bit closer to the front of my pelvis whereas before it was more on the side.. Its alot more stable and the NPA is easier to find. Not sure if it'll work for you, but it may generate ideas you can experiment with.
I can draw you a picture if youre interested in what I changed.
I can draw you a picture if youre interested in what I changed.
Yes a drawing would be nice.adrianS wrote:I had this problem before, and my position looked very similar to yours, feet included based on your drawings. I ended up reforming my position from the feet all the way up. Now my feet are on the tangent line, right toe pointing inside slightly, and the torso is twisted to the left, with alot more room between my left shoulder and the rifle now. Support elbow sits a bit closer to the front of my pelvis whereas before it was more on the side.. Its alot more stable and the NPA is easier to find. Not sure if it'll work for you, but it may generate ideas you can experiment with.
I can draw you a picture if youre interested in what I changed.
I'm thinking about to sideway offset my buttplate to the right and se how that feels and how it changes the contact with buttplate and arm.
That position doesn't look ideal to me. Tension is generally a bad thing and has to be very finely balanced. As I'm sure you know, with tension comes discomfort and fatigue resulting in an inconsistent setup.Johan_85 wrote:Here is a picture that I have drawed that shows my foot position and the pressure on those.
Does it look normal and what is there I can test to overcome the tendency to fall forward against the toes?
How much tension is normally used in the feet?
I need some tension to hold the balance, right or wrong?
I need to rotate my right foot as displayed in the drawing otherwise I get a rotation in the right knee that wants to unlock it all the time.
Rob.
What do you see that isn't ideal?RobStubbs wrote:That position doesn't look ideal to me. Tension is generally a bad thing and has to be very finely balanced. As I'm sure you know, with tension comes discomfort and fatigue resulting in an inconsistent setup.Johan_85 wrote:Here is a picture that I have drawed that shows my foot position and the pressure on those.
Does it look normal and what is there I can test to overcome the tendency to fall forward against the toes?
How much tension is normally used in the feet?
I need some tension to hold the balance, right or wrong?
I need to rotate my right foot as displayed in the drawing otherwise I get a rotation in the right knee that wants to unlock it all the time.
Rob.
Ok here you go. It's a top down like your footing position drawing. Many of the placements are slightly exaggerated, but I did it to show the differences.
So in the A panel was my before position, and B panel is my after.
1. I started out by changing both feet so they are on the tangent line. Angle of right foot toe and spread distance is adjustable for NPA. There's a point on the green dotted lines where the centerOfGravity lies. Since obviously the weight is more on the left foot, imagine the balance point a little closer to the left foot..
2. my pelvis, I didn't change it. I kept it in line to the target.
3. represents my upper torso/shoulders. I turned my spine to the left. Not forcefully, but I felt a comfortable limit. This one helped stabilize everything. When I turned my torso to the left then arching back a bit, it creates just a gentle bit of muscular binding while balancing yourself. The feeling is almost similar to pointing your left foot toe in while in the kneeling position to stabilize your knee more.
4. the red shapes are where my elbow is pointed. In relation to the target, it probably didn't change much, but in relation to my shoulders, it's pointing to the right more. Obviously the elbow location has to change to keep the rifle pointed at the target, since I am compensating for the left twist of my torso. Another thing to note, when I mount the rifle, I make sure I raise the muzzle up enough so my elbow can really dig into the nook of my side above the pelvis, before I lower the muzzle. But that's the way it is for me.
5. I decided to change my support hand. I probably didn't have to, but I like the more stable feeling of it in my upward facing palm rather than on my fist. I had to lower the palm rest a bit.
6. the black rectangle represents the rifle. Note the distance the rifle is compared to my shoulder now. And the angle of my torso to the rifle. Its easier to cant the rifle a bit more now, and the cheekpiece is more to the side of my cheek under the cheekbone without my nose pointing into the rifle as much. Also, what doesn't show very well here, is the angle of the rifle going into the right shoulder. This helped get rid of the pectoral interference with the buttplate. Also, with my torso turned like this, my shoulders rotated forwards a bit. This helped the pectoral issue even more. I had to shorten the buttplate in all the way.
Anyways perhaps this is all a bit much. But I just illustrated it because I had to do these things to fix alot of the problems which, from the sounds of what you describe, seem alot like mine. My balance is alot better, less chest pulse transmission and pectoral interference, no more NPA falling to the left and rifle falling out of my right shoulder "nook", shortened buttplate and less pressure into my right shoulder meant less pulse from the brachial(axilliary?) artery. Still though, it all isn't perfect but its a huge difference for the better.
Just a few ideas that could possibly help.
So in the A panel was my before position, and B panel is my after.
1. I started out by changing both feet so they are on the tangent line. Angle of right foot toe and spread distance is adjustable for NPA. There's a point on the green dotted lines where the centerOfGravity lies. Since obviously the weight is more on the left foot, imagine the balance point a little closer to the left foot..
2. my pelvis, I didn't change it. I kept it in line to the target.
3. represents my upper torso/shoulders. I turned my spine to the left. Not forcefully, but I felt a comfortable limit. This one helped stabilize everything. When I turned my torso to the left then arching back a bit, it creates just a gentle bit of muscular binding while balancing yourself. The feeling is almost similar to pointing your left foot toe in while in the kneeling position to stabilize your knee more.
4. the red shapes are where my elbow is pointed. In relation to the target, it probably didn't change much, but in relation to my shoulders, it's pointing to the right more. Obviously the elbow location has to change to keep the rifle pointed at the target, since I am compensating for the left twist of my torso. Another thing to note, when I mount the rifle, I make sure I raise the muzzle up enough so my elbow can really dig into the nook of my side above the pelvis, before I lower the muzzle. But that's the way it is for me.
5. I decided to change my support hand. I probably didn't have to, but I like the more stable feeling of it in my upward facing palm rather than on my fist. I had to lower the palm rest a bit.
6. the black rectangle represents the rifle. Note the distance the rifle is compared to my shoulder now. And the angle of my torso to the rifle. Its easier to cant the rifle a bit more now, and the cheekpiece is more to the side of my cheek under the cheekbone without my nose pointing into the rifle as much. Also, what doesn't show very well here, is the angle of the rifle going into the right shoulder. This helped get rid of the pectoral interference with the buttplate. Also, with my torso turned like this, my shoulders rotated forwards a bit. This helped the pectoral issue even more. I had to shorten the buttplate in all the way.
Anyways perhaps this is all a bit much. But I just illustrated it because I had to do these things to fix alot of the problems which, from the sounds of what you describe, seem alot like mine. My balance is alot better, less chest pulse transmission and pectoral interference, no more NPA falling to the left and rifle falling out of my right shoulder "nook", shortened buttplate and less pressure into my right shoulder meant less pulse from the brachial(axilliary?) artery. Still though, it all isn't perfect but its a huge difference for the better.
Just a few ideas that could possibly help.