Hi all, new here just got back into prone .22 after 20 years! Just purchased an Anschultz 2013 second hand, it's come with Anschultz 6805 rear and 6832 cantable sight at the front.
Just wanted to know if these are good enough or if I should be looking to upgrade and if so what to?
Cheers
Timmeruk
Best sights for Anschultz 2013
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Hi and welcome,
Absolutely good enough.
I used a pair of 6805 sights for some years with great success - not a lot wrong with them although they might be considered a little coarse at 6 clicks per MOA (that's 6 clicks from one side of the bull to the other roughly with our UK targets).
I used one for indoors and one for outdoors but I also use a flipover foresight which means you don't end up winding your sights nearly so far when going from 50m to 100y.
Now I have a 7020 rearsight which is very good but is almost too fine in it's resolution. Also a Centra SPY which is 12 clicks per MOA and quite low profile for seeing wind flags, and finally a Gehmann 595 which is 12 clicks per MOA again but a bit bukier.
The foresight is again quite adequate - at some point you might consider adding a level of some sort if you're shooting 100yds. Possibly an adjustable iris or a selection of foresight elements.
Basically, you've got the stuff you need to get you going - if you don't have an adjustable iris/filter set for the rearsight that would be something you might want to investigate.
Otherwise just shoot a bit, play around with foresight size (don't be tempted to go too small), and don't be in too much of a hurry to upgrade.
Jacket, glove and sling are also very important.
Cheers,
Ken.
Absolutely good enough.
I used a pair of 6805 sights for some years with great success - not a lot wrong with them although they might be considered a little coarse at 6 clicks per MOA (that's 6 clicks from one side of the bull to the other roughly with our UK targets).
I used one for indoors and one for outdoors but I also use a flipover foresight which means you don't end up winding your sights nearly so far when going from 50m to 100y.
Now I have a 7020 rearsight which is very good but is almost too fine in it's resolution. Also a Centra SPY which is 12 clicks per MOA and quite low profile for seeing wind flags, and finally a Gehmann 595 which is 12 clicks per MOA again but a bit bukier.
The foresight is again quite adequate - at some point you might consider adding a level of some sort if you're shooting 100yds. Possibly an adjustable iris or a selection of foresight elements.
Basically, you've got the stuff you need to get you going - if you don't have an adjustable iris/filter set for the rearsight that would be something you might want to investigate.
Otherwise just shoot a bit, play around with foresight size (don't be tempted to go too small), and don't be in too much of a hurry to upgrade.
Jacket, glove and sling are also very important.
Cheers,
Ken.
3 clicks would be about right for a shot that's inside the bull and touching the line, but not breaking it.
I think Ken is thinking of 6 clicks from the edge of the bull to the centre. The NSRA 25 yard target is 2 minutes across (1/2in). So if your sights have 1/6 minute clicks, it takes 12 clicks to go from one edge to the opposite. Or 6 clicks to go from the ring to the centre (the radius of the bull is 1 minute).
However the thing about sight clicks, is the value is often nominal. It will only be 1/6 minute if the rearsight is a certain distance from the foresight. Mount the rearsight on a 1913 (69cm barrel), as far back as it goes, and your clicks will be slightly smaller than if using the same rearsight on a 1907 (66cm barrel) mounted as far forward as possible.
I think Ken is thinking of 6 clicks from the edge of the bull to the centre. The NSRA 25 yard target is 2 minutes across (1/2in). So if your sights have 1/6 minute clicks, it takes 12 clicks to go from one edge to the opposite. Or 6 clicks to go from the ring to the centre (the radius of the bull is 1 minute).
However the thing about sight clicks, is the value is often nominal. It will only be 1/6 minute if the rearsight is a certain distance from the foresight. Mount the rearsight on a 1913 (69cm barrel), as far back as it goes, and your clicks will be slightly smaller than if using the same rearsight on a 1907 (66cm barrel) mounted as far forward as possible.
In theory yes - I spent some time measuring all my sights, doing the maths and drawing up charts like this FOR MY SIGHTBASE OF 39" :
(The circle outside the bull represents the limit of where the shot center has to be to just clip the bull - i.e. a 10.0)
I also did some testing from the shoulder - shoot a group, move 5 clicks shoot another group, another 5 clicks, group etc, then back again. (It's more cost effective and purist to do this with SCATT or Noptel.)
The most important thing is to get them checked out for backlash. Hopefully you can find someone nearby with a dial gauge rig to measure how consistently the sight moves from click to click and whether it returns to the same zero every time.
The Gehmann sight I have didn't (when I got it) and needed the springs replacing. Now it is very consistent.
Cheers,
Ken.
(The circle outside the bull represents the limit of where the shot center has to be to just clip the bull - i.e. a 10.0)
I also did some testing from the shoulder - shoot a group, move 5 clicks shoot another group, another 5 clicks, group etc, then back again. (It's more cost effective and purist to do this with SCATT or Noptel.)
The most important thing is to get them checked out for backlash. Hopefully you can find someone nearby with a dial gauge rig to measure how consistently the sight moves from click to click and whether it returns to the same zero every time.
The Gehmann sight I have didn't (when I got it) and needed the springs replacing. Now it is very consistent.
Cheers,
Ken.
Hi Tim,
here's my thinking:
It's all about the shot center - at 100 yds inward gauging, the bull is about 26mm across. to shoot a bull you need the shot CENTER to be within (26 + 5.5)/2 mm of the center of the target.
That makes the bull effectively 31.5mm across in relation to the shot centers. i.e a 10.0 on the left to a 10.0. on the right.
At 100 yds 1 MOA = 1.047" or 26.6mm so the bull is effectively 1.18 MOA across.
At 25 yds outward gauging BM1989 the bull is 12.4mm across (?) plus the thickness of the line (0.5mm ?) giving 13.4 mm roughly edge to edge while still (just) scoring a bull.
That translates to 13.4 - 5.5 = 7.9mm across measured from the shot centers to still score a ten.
Scaling this up we see that 7.9mm at 25 yds and 31.5mm at 100 yds are within 0.1mm (4 x 7.9 = 31.6mm) - so the 25 yd bull is effectively 1.19 MOA across.
If you can see a flaw in my logic I would be most happy to be corrected.
Regards,
Ken.
PS. I will have to check my maths but I believe that 50m doesn't scale quite like the "yards" cards do.
here's my thinking:
It's all about the shot center - at 100 yds inward gauging, the bull is about 26mm across. to shoot a bull you need the shot CENTER to be within (26 + 5.5)/2 mm of the center of the target.
That makes the bull effectively 31.5mm across in relation to the shot centers. i.e a 10.0 on the left to a 10.0. on the right.
At 100 yds 1 MOA = 1.047" or 26.6mm so the bull is effectively 1.18 MOA across.
At 25 yds outward gauging BM1989 the bull is 12.4mm across (?) plus the thickness of the line (0.5mm ?) giving 13.4 mm roughly edge to edge while still (just) scoring a bull.
That translates to 13.4 - 5.5 = 7.9mm across measured from the shot centers to still score a ten.
Scaling this up we see that 7.9mm at 25 yds and 31.5mm at 100 yds are within 0.1mm (4 x 7.9 = 31.6mm) - so the 25 yd bull is effectively 1.19 MOA across.
If you can see a flaw in my logic I would be most happy to be corrected.
Regards,
Ken.
PS. I will have to check my maths but I believe that 50m doesn't scale quite like the "yards" cards do.
Hi Ken,
I see your logic, and there's nothing wrong with it. I think we were arguing different points. I meant 12 clicks across the bull, so a shot straddling the line on one side to straddling the line on the opposite; or 6 clicks to the centre spot.
For 10.0 to 10.9, you are entirely correct it would be fewer clicks.
I once tried doing the maths for 50m. It's similar, but as you say not quite to scale. One minute is something like 14mm, giving an comparative bull of 1.5 minutes.
I see your logic, and there's nothing wrong with it. I think we were arguing different points. I meant 12 clicks across the bull, so a shot straddling the line on one side to straddling the line on the opposite; or 6 clicks to the centre spot.
For 10.0 to 10.9, you are entirely correct it would be fewer clicks.
I once tried doing the maths for 50m. It's similar, but as you say not quite to scale. One minute is something like 14mm, giving an comparative bull of 1.5 minutes.
OK lets do it:Tim S wrote:I once tried doing the maths for 50m. It's similar, but as you say not quite to scale. One minute is something like 14mm, giving an comparative bull of 1.5 minutes.
at 50m the bull is 10.4mm so if we add in the shot diameter it gives us 15.9mm across for center to center measurement.
50m = 54.68yds so scaling this up relative to 100 yds gives:
(15.9 x 100)/ 54.68 = 29.07mm = 29.07/26.6 MOA = 1.09 MOA.
Compared to the 100 yd Bull which is effectively 1.18 MOA.
So the 50m bull is relatively slightly SMALLER than the 100yd bull and the 25Yd bull... (about 7.6% smaller)
Next we have to do the sums for a 50 YARD bull to see if there is an advantage shooting a 50yd / 100yd dewar compared to a 50m / 100yd dewar...
Ken.