The rules say the pistol must fit in a box of a certain size. The width of this box is 50mm.
I have just received my custom Rink grips, and they are about 3mm wider than the standard Morini grips. This will make it 'tight' in the measuring box.
However, fit the electronics, and I now have a switch sticking out making the gun 52mm wide.
So the question is: Does the rule allow flexibility for the extra width of the switch (which provides no advantage to the competitor) or is it as I suspect, Dremmel time?
I have emailed Rink for comment, but they are out this week.
Cheers
McT
10 m pistol size
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I was told during my last tournament by the official that the pistol MUST fit the box.
According to ISSF rules 8.12:
"420 x 200 x50"
"Measuring Box: The pistol is measured with all accessories in place (if an Air Pistol is used with a magazine it may be measured with the magazine removed). A manufacturing tolerance of the rectangular Measuring Box of 0.0 mm to + 1.0 mm in each dimension is permitted."
I don't know which pistol you use. Flip the switch to see if that reduce it to 51mm, assuming the switch can be flipped or pressed. There is no extra tolerance, so 51mm is the maximum.
Have you tried to raise the top part of the pistol (or receiver) so that it will fit? You can manipulate whatever which way to make it fit.
If that does not work, then send the Grip back, or Dremmel time, or figure out and install an alternative switch.
According to ISSF rules 8.12:
"420 x 200 x50"
"Measuring Box: The pistol is measured with all accessories in place (if an Air Pistol is used with a magazine it may be measured with the magazine removed). A manufacturing tolerance of the rectangular Measuring Box of 0.0 mm to + 1.0 mm in each dimension is permitted."
I don't know which pistol you use. Flip the switch to see if that reduce it to 51mm, assuming the switch can be flipped or pressed. There is no extra tolerance, so 51mm is the maximum.
Have you tried to raise the top part of the pistol (or receiver) so that it will fit? You can manipulate whatever which way to make it fit.
If that does not work, then send the Grip back, or Dremmel time, or figure out and install an alternative switch.
Do not expect that the boxes will be +1mm in any dimension. A box that is +0.0mm is just as likely.conradin wrote:...I don't know which pistol you use. Flip the switch to see if that reduce it to 51mm, assuming the switch can be flipped or pressed. There is no extra tolerance, so 51mm is the maximum....
My interpretation of the +/- 1.0mm tolerance on measuring box dimensions would certainly NOT make a 51mm grip width acceptable. Unless of course you knew in advance that a particular box was 1mm too big in that dimension. Would seem to be a fool's wager, especially when attending a match in an unfamiliar place. A +/- 1mm tolerance means that the box should measure 50mm, but might be as small as 49mm, leaving a 51mm grip 2mm too wide and forcing either some fast carving or withdrawal from the match.
I would suggest laying the pistol down on the flat side of the grip and using a simple inverted U shape cut out of cardboard with exactly a 50mm height on the upper inside flat to check exactly where the grip touches. Rock the pistol a bit if necessary to make it as low as possible; they use a lid and it should do this same thing when pressed lightly onto the box. Decide if some of your palm shelf can be shaved down where it's not in use on your hand anyway. You can also use a pencil to mark around the flat side and see if that can be sanded down to lay flatter on the table without compromising any hand contact surfaces or the electronics box. My grip has a bevel or facet on that flat side for this reason, as I made the grip quite wide in my palm area and wanted a wider palm shelf. It measures exactly 49.0mm wide at most on a humid day. Wood changes dimensionally with the weather, so I finalized dimensioning the maple grip when my hygrometer stated 70% relative humidity.
I would suggest laying the pistol down on the flat side of the grip and using a simple inverted U shape cut out of cardboard with exactly a 50mm height on the upper inside flat to check exactly where the grip touches. Rock the pistol a bit if necessary to make it as low as possible; they use a lid and it should do this same thing when pressed lightly onto the box. Decide if some of your palm shelf can be shaved down where it's not in use on your hand anyway. You can also use a pencil to mark around the flat side and see if that can be sanded down to lay flatter on the table without compromising any hand contact surfaces or the electronics box. My grip has a bevel or facet on that flat side for this reason, as I made the grip quite wide in my palm area and wanted a wider palm shelf. It measures exactly 49.0mm wide at most on a humid day. Wood changes dimensionally with the weather, so I finalized dimensioning the maple grip when my hygrometer stated 70% relative humidity.
That's exactly what I intend doing. Its a Moroni AP, the standard grip is thinner, and the switch more recessed. Shaving 3mm off the palm shelf will take it down to size.Rover wrote:Why not take a little wood off the OTHER side?
But I'm a bit shocked that Rink would ship a grip that was not legal - so will see what they say when they get back from the German championships. I also had to cut a slot for the trigger guard, just a bit of routing they 'forgot' to do. So not the outstanding quality I expected based on what I've read on the forums. Lucky I am definitely a 'shoot it and not look at it' type, so my ham fisted woodwork to adapt it will not break my heart.
Cheers
McT
To be certain that your pistol qualifies at every match, it should fit in a box measuring 419x199x49. This assumes a "box" built to minimum specifications within the rule.
edit: mea culpa, I misread the specs as +/- 1mm, rather than +1mm and minus 0mm.
420x200x50 should be maximum size of the pistol.
edit: mea culpa, I misread the specs as +/- 1mm, rather than +1mm and minus 0mm.
420x200x50 should be maximum size of the pistol.
Last edited by Pat McCoy on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Having put an unreasonable number of air pistol into the box at guncheck over the years - IF you can get a 421 x 121 x 51 pistol into a box of exactly those dimensions without distorting the box then I'd let you shoot with it. However the fact that the box has a manufacturing tolerance of plus 1 mm but note the minus "0 mm" implies that the box specs are designed to ensure that ever competitor gets the maximum allowed, but that the maker is not permitted much of an error in manufacture. So no you really cannot max out the pistol dimensions, and boxes do get measured and certified.
Dr. Jim
Dr. Jim
morini 162e
Hi
I had the same problem with the switch toggle on my morini. Got a serious growl from EQ, so I've ground it down to avoid further problems. No problem to switch on or off with toggle level with edge of grip.
Max
I had the same problem with the switch toggle on my morini. Got a serious growl from EQ, so I've ground it down to avoid further problems. No problem to switch on or off with toggle level with edge of grip.
Max
Gentlemen... The rule we are discussing is in my mind one of the clearest in the rulebook. Since many different pistols are created many different ways, the rulemakers decided to use a max volume to define the pistol dimensions.
The max volume is 400 x 200 x 50. In order to allow for production of the "CHECK FIXTURE" more commonly known as a box, a production allowance of +1 -0 was defined.
The end result is that if it fits in the box you can shoot it. While some boxes might be slightly more generous than others, no gun meeting the max allowed dimensions would be excluded by the smallest box allowed. FLAWLESS LOGIC and quite easy to police.
Alll the talk of what happens in the "extra 1 mm zone" is fine and dandy, as long as you dont find a spot on box. Lets face it, 1 mm is HUGE as far as a tolerance go's, if you want to play games there, feel free, I cant think of anything on my gun that adding less than 1 mm to would improve significantly....
The max volume is 400 x 200 x 50. In order to allow for production of the "CHECK FIXTURE" more commonly known as a box, a production allowance of +1 -0 was defined.
The end result is that if it fits in the box you can shoot it. While some boxes might be slightly more generous than others, no gun meeting the max allowed dimensions would be excluded by the smallest box allowed. FLAWLESS LOGIC and quite easy to police.
Alll the talk of what happens in the "extra 1 mm zone" is fine and dandy, as long as you dont find a spot on box. Lets face it, 1 mm is HUGE as far as a tolerance go's, if you want to play games there, feel free, I cant think of anything on my gun that adding less than 1 mm to would improve significantly....