CFP

[conradin]

Nestruyev is still using the Revolver, from what I have seen in the picture. He finished 25th. To the left, Christian Reitz. Nestruyev still has his Toz.
http://www.ech2013.com/alati/slika_prik ... lerija=111

Ivan Bidnyak also used a revolver. He finished 22nd.
http://www.ech2013.com/alati/slika_prik ... lerija=111

Finally, Oleksandr Petriv; he finished 8th.
http://www.ech2013.com/alati/slika_prik ... lerija=112
http://www.ech2013.com/alati/slika_prik ... lerija=109

Needless to say, it is all about Pardini...

[conradin]

I am a firm believer that this competition should be strictly for revolvers.

[David Levene]

I am a firm believer that this competition should be strictly for revolvers.

I firmly believe that is rubbish.

[conradin]

So to your believe revolvers are no longer worthy for any sort of world class ISSF target shooting competition?

[David Levene]

So to your believe revolvers are no longer worthy for any sort of world class ISSF target shooting competition?

No

[brakarzac]

I am a firm believer that this competition should be strictly for revolvers.

What a load of rubbish!!!

Revolver or Semi Auto, it does not matter. Its the person behind the firearm that shoots the scores, a top shooter uses what is most comfortable to them.

To say that CFP should be revolver only eliminates a lot of people who for some reason do not like or are unable to use a revolver!!!

[brakarzac]

So to your believe revolvers are no longer worthy for any sort of world class ISSF target shooting competition?

David did not say anything like that!
Without speaking for David, I understood his comment to mean that you have a choice of revolver or semi auto...

[David Levene]

Without speaking for David, I understood his comment to mean that you have a choice of revolver or semi auto...

You are correct, thank you.

[conradin]

What a load of rubbish!!!

Revolver or Semi Auto, it does not matter. Its the person behind the firearm that shoots the scores, a top shooter uses what is most comfortable to them.

To say that CFP should be revolver only eliminates a lot of people who for some reason do not like or are unable to use a revolver!!!

You don't have to yell. I was just expressing my opinion, to say it is rubbish is one thing, to yell is another. Historically CFP is what we have as the military pistol competition, and was for years used with revolvers.

I just prefer to see one competition using revolvers, the other semi-automatic, both use large calibers. They are totally different animals.

[conradin]

What a great forum, I went a long way to figure out who used a revolver in ECH2013, with photos and everything, because one person care enough to ask. Not a single person seem to bother. How hard it is to check a website, email a friend in Europe, or just phone one who came back from the competition..Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Parla Italiano? Last time I actually have to personally asked Vika Chaika what she used to win the World Cup, and then emailed Nino what she used, so that one can find out if electronic trigger is now a must.

Then I expressed an opinion which I would like to see a change of format of a competition, because I know the history of CFP pretty well (such as T Ullman, Turla, and Nuestruev's achievement), and I got flamed.

It seems that if I give useful information nobody thanks me, and when I give ANY opinion I got flamed, whether it is educated, or out of ignorance.

No wonder there are lots of friends of mine ask me why I am into this sport because many people they know who are into this sport are a**holes. Even the scuba shop guy who does not shoot knows who the local assholes are, BY CLUB.

Anyway, flame away, troll me and try to stop me from posting is not going to help any of you. Kick me out of TT if you are the moderator or owner and got tired of me because I am unpopular. You guys are all adults and certainly can skip my post. I certainly now would not bother to ask people whom I have connections with about the model of the three revolvers used in the ECH2013. For the person who wanted to know, I am sorry. I am sure there are many well informed veterans who know it all can tell you exactly which three revolvers are, what caliber, etc. I am also sure they can name drop like no others....

I got into this sport by accident. I just barely completely my 13th month of shooting ANYTHING. If I stay silent and not ask question I will learn nothing, I am NOT at the level of stay silent and learn yet. When I reach that level, I will stay silent because I will be at the stage of being able to observe or read to understand. People got killed in the range because they stay silent and not ask about rules. *I* almost got killed in my HOME range because someone did not ask about range rules.

In another lifetime I was in a sport in which staying silent and just observe and learn means death. I asked lots of stupid questions. Nobody ever mind. I gave lots of stupid opinions, nobody flamed me. Unfortunately an acquaintance of mine, who asked ME questions, and was successful afterwards, did not ask questions one time while in Europe, and he is now a veggie. His questions to me may seem stupid, I never called him names or call him stupid or flame him. I am still upset for the fact that he did not ask any questions while in Europe at that particular event, and within 72 hours he became a highly function-able veggie. Still is.

I asked stupid questions, I expect people to correct me in a gentleman fashion. Sometimes I just don't feel like dialing +(49) and asked someone else for advice at 3am in the morning, +(81) and asked someone else for advice at 5am in the morning, especially when the guy was coaching the national team at the time. That was rude of me.

And guess what, none of them called me stupid, flamed me, slammed down the phone, turned off the high tech text gadget, whatever.

Rant over, move on.

[David M]

A very competitive revolver is the Manurhin Match in .38 Special and to a lesser extent in .32 S&W long.

[Tycho]

I just barely completely my 13th month of shooting ANYTHING

Which might be why you discover so many new, exciting things every day. Thing is, most of them (as well as the answers to most of your questions) have been discussed forward and backwards here, so most of the "oldtimers" are pretty tired of them and tend to snipe at people waltzing in and noisily rediscovering the world. Many things in shooting work well for tens of years, so there is no basis to assume that the archives of TT are just full of useless, old junk. Use that search function and read up on what has been said before. Any new and interesting question will be taken up and discussed in depth, as history well shows. Nobody minds opinions, but when they start resembling something out of fairy wonderland, don't expect to be taken seriously. IMO, "interesting" doesn't necessarily mean what has been used by so-and-so there-and-there, as many shooters have by now found out that it doesn't really matter what somebody else is using for hardware, if one doesn't know the reasons behind that decision (and the REALLY interesting part is what is happening between the ears).

And, you won't learn many useful things by firing questions at anybody and his cousin here, 'cause you won't be able to sort out the useful answers from stuff by people who have been shooting Gamos for three months. Show some patience or get ignored. Or go Scuba diving, but there are unfriendly divers, too.[/i]

[David Levene]

It seems that if I give useful information nobody thanks me, and when I give ANY opinion I got flamed, whether it is educated, or out of ignorance.

You gave your opinion, 2 others gave their's. If you call that flaming then you really have a strange view of the world.

You then tried to totally twist my answer to mean something completely different.

If you want to express an opinion then expect others to sometimes disagree.

[william]

Tycho, my friend, you referred to "fairy wonderland." Feel free to indulge in your native language and use the - IMO - much more colorful "Wolkenkuckucksheim." Thanks to Schopenhauer.

[conradin]

Thank you Tycho. I DID read the entire archive before posting my first post. But how can you search for something using the "search" function on a complicated subject?

Yes, I also used search function, but unless someone tell me exactly how it works, either I enter a key word then yield thousands of thread, or a wrong key word that simply does not work.

When I search "Center fire pistol revolver" there are 22 that match. While it is useful to know Maruhin and Toz makes/made great revolvers, there was not much info that I do not know, or info that I need. In this case, whether center fire pistol is still dominated by revolvers or not, if not how are the revolvers doing, and how did the semi-automatic ended up taking over the discipline.

[conradin]

You gave your opinion, 2 others gave their's. If you call that flaming then you really have a strange view of the world.

I actually want others to give opinions. Although not all opinions are the same and not all are accurate. The best I can do is to pick one that is most logical and work from there.

You then tried to totally twist my answer to mean something completely different.

No....that's why I asked is that what you mean, because honestly I do not understand what you mean when you said rubbish.

If you want to express an opinion then expect others to sometimes disagree.

Of course. But I consider yelling (write things in capital letters or in big block letters) is an insult. I expect by now people understand the basic internet etiquette of yelling and insulting vs. merely an opinion that says mine is rubbish. I can deal with my idea being called rubbish, in fact, I want to know why.

Since I only have 13 months of shooting experience (and quite honestly by accident and by the need to learn self defense because of real life danger) on target shooting. The only thing that I can improve other than practicing is to read through books after books. I personally like shooting revolvers, plus spending lots of time in research of different discipline, Hence for example I have rulebooks from the 1930s to early 1960s. When I was not sure I corresponded with veterans (the last one I asked was Inna Rose, took me two weeks to get an answer from her, but she DID give me the answer and did not call me stupid).

Since I did not have any opinion that is based on practical shooting, my info is limited, and hence the need for people here in chime in, that's all.

[william]

Alright, enough! I think this is the key statement:

Since I did not have any opinion that is based on practical shooting, my info is limited, and hence the need for people here in chime in, that's all.

I think you are wasting your time and filling your head with a lot of stuff that may be helpful, may be harmful or may be just plain useless.

Although a more boring approach, you might want to consider this:
1. Find a mentor - it doesn't matter whether you call him/her coach, instructor, guru, sensei or whatever.
2. Stick to that person like a limpet.
3. Listen to everything he/she says uncritically.
4. Do everything he/she instructs you to do.
5. Ignore ALL other opinions.
6. When your mentor says you're ready to consider other techniques feel free to search, although at this point you will feel sufficiently comfortable with your skills that you will feel no need to do so.

[David Levene]

I can deal with my idea being called rubbish, in fact, I want to know why.

As you didn't feel it necessary to give any justification or reason for your belief, I didn't feel it necessary to give any justification or reason for mine

[Rover]

Damn, I love this forum!

[rmca]

center fire pistol is still dominated by revolvers or not, if not how are the revolvers doing, and how did the semi-automatic ended up taking over the discipline.

The reason is simple.

You have two parts in a CF match, a precision part and a velocity part (duel).

In the precision part you have plenty of time to shoot, so the semi automatic just gives a tiny advantage over the revolver because you don't have to cock it every time.

Now, in the duel part, you have seven seconds between shots to cock the revolver, and that means that you either lose part of your grip on the gun by cocking it with your thumb, or loose your body/head position by cocking it with your left hand. This is where the semi automatic pistols do shine. Remember that you have to start with your harm at 45 degrees, and have just 3 seconds to shoot.... A semi automatic gun removes that hassle from the match.

If you don't cock the revolver you'll have an excessive trigger pull length, and trigger pull weight, that's not that great for precision shooting.

Hope this helps