AP:Expired seldom used cylinders vs New daily used cylinders

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:51 pm

Then you know you just stick the cylinder in a glass of water and look for bubbles.

Then you send it to Pilk.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:33 pm

conradin wrote:Can you teach me about disabling them and check for leak at the nipples?

While Rover's reply wasn't crystal clear, as in holding your hand while you package the cylinder and walking you to the post office, I think it was quite clear enough:

Rover wrote:I sent them one at a time when each started to leak so I still had a gun.

It would seem that Rover sent his leaking cylinders to the manufacturer or a service centre where the work could be done. I see no sign that he was volunteering to instruct you in doing this work yourself, and considering that this is a high pressure vessel it would seem obvious that it would be HIGHLY FOOLHARDY to attempt such work yourself, unless you are a qualified pressure vessel repairman.

Ah, I see he's responded further, but tongue in cheek and helpfully, while I was writing my response. I think you're good to go now Conradin. Unless you want to ask more questions about the obvious.

jr · Post by jr » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:01 pm

j-team wrote:
conradin wrote:Is there a way to test the cylinders how much life they have left?
Yes. Wait till it blows up, then you will know how much life it had left.

Anything else is an estimate.

Calvin's dad (of the comic strip Calvin and Hobbes) had a similar theory about how to set bridge load limits (see the top strip):
http://www.s-anand.net/blog/calvin-and- ... s-science/

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:07 am

Rover wrote:Then you know you just stick the cylinder in a glass of water and look for bubbles.

Then you send it to Pilk.

Perfect, thank you. Although I won't be sending to Pilk, it will going to the garbage bin and I will buy new cylinders.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:33 pm

Why would you NOT send it to Pilk? Go ahead and buy new ones if it soothes you, but remember it was NEW cylinders that blew up at one time and also blew out the manometers.

Perhaps you should have bought CO2 guns that are far safer due to their lower operating pressure.

Or maybe bypass those nasty hideously dangerous gas guns and use your FWB 65 or a SSP.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:41 pm

Rover wrote:Why would you NOT send it to Pilk? Go ahead and buy new ones if it soothes you, but remember it was NEW cylinders that blew up at one time and also blew out the manometers.

use your FWB 65 or a SSP.

Pilk does not take in expire cylinders.

Haireacane · Post by **Haireacane** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:58 pm

Spoke with Buck at Pilkington guns recently and THEY WILL NOT, I REPEAT WILL NOT repair any cylinders that are more than 10 years old.

I just left the Progressive Air Pistol National Championship at Ft. Benning and this was to be the last year that cylinders more than 10 years old could be used at that match. They did discuss a possibility of a waiver for junior shooters. As a 4-H Coach with 9 guns with 15 out of date cylinders I hope so as we do not have $3,000 to replace them in one year.

My thanks to USA Shooting, the volunteers and the Army Marksmanship Unit for hosting the match especially with the dual locations in both Georgia and Colorado. I was surprised that we had almost twice the number of kids competing in the South than at the OTC since we do not usually have access to Ft. Benning like junior shooters do at the OTC.

David Haire
Tift County Georgia Shooting Sports

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:53 am

I hate the 10 year rule as I believe it only opens USA Shooting up to liability for holding themselves out to be the experts on when cylinders should be considered "expired."

That said, it's hard to say this rule is really about a critical safety issue if a waiver is granted. I think a lot of junior teams are going to be upset.

Hopefully, they'll just can the rule and let competitors be responsible for ensuring the safety of their own equipment.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:59 am

sparky wrote:I hate the 10 year rule as I believe it only opens USA Shooting up to liability for holding themselves out to be the experts on when cylinders should be considered "expired."

That said, it's hard to say this rule is really about a critical safety issue if a waiver is granted. I think a lot of junior teams are going to be upset.

Hopefully, they'll just can the rule and let competitors be responsible for ensuring the safety of their own equipment.

While I agree, I surely do not want to be the guy who is using the next lane.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:33 pm

Of course you don't, when the ranges are littered with the dead, maimed, and dying from those out of date cylinders in use by the uncaring.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:00 pm

This is just a guess, as I have some machining and welding background but am not an engineer, but it seems rather likely that most cylinders are substantially over-built. When empty they're still fairly heavy so there's decent wall thickness, and any manufacturer whose cylinder failed publicly would likely be out of the business within the year so they'd err on the safe side. My guess would be at minimum double the required strength for a decade. Probably closer to triple.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:29 pm

Here ya go, Conradin...

viewtopic.php?t=40608

I bet he'd even take a trade-in so you could get rid of that Steyr piece of crap and not blow your hand off.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:38 pm

I think Rover is still butt hurt since I originally wanted to buy his FWB2 but then have to decline after I found out that I could not find any facilities or shop of any sort in my neighborhood to have a Co2 tank. It is easier to buy a Glock 40 on the street corner anytime here than buy a Co2 tank.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:53 pm

Yeah, you could have had a freshly rebuilt gun AND cylinders for the cost of replacements for your Steyr. You couldn't find CO2 for it because you were trying to buy from a dealer on the other side of the country instead of down the street where I told you where to look for it.

Just throw your outdated Steyr cylinders at them. The blast will certainly deter them.

In personal use, I have found the ol' "Dirty Harry" .44 mag. extremely effective for social work.

I'm happy to hear you're working on your "street cred."

If I can find your address, I'll send you one of my famous "Born to Suffer" T-shirts.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:58 pm

I have a S&W 44 already.

bummer7 · Post by **bummer7** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:16 pm

Vince,
if you ever purchase a CO2 pistol/rifle and you're looking for a place to obtain CO2 for it. There are several places in the SF bay area that carries it as well as used tanks.
I shot a FWB Model 2 for several years until I upgraded to a PCP. I never had a problem finding or filling a CO2 tank. Almost all the industrial gas (welding supplies) had CO2 available at reasonable prices. The most inexpensive place I found was a bar supplier in Sunnyvale who filled a 70lb welding tank for me for $14 and they included a dip tube too. I calculated I would get about 6,300 refills from this welding tank. I do admit it was a bear to load the tank in my car but it was worth it as I used it for 6 years and haven't had to refill it yet. On a related note, I have thought about using the CO2 to operate a soda dispenser so it doesn't go to waste. IIRC, there were also a few places in San Leandro and Hayward that sold CO2 too.
-s

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:26 pm

Rover wrote:You couldn't find CO2 for it because you were trying to buy from a dealer on the other side of the country instead of down the street where I told you where to look for it.

There is simply no appropriate place to find CO2 due to the nature of my neighborhood.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:35 pm

Thanks Steve, I actually wanted to have a FWB2. But at the time I really have no clue where to find a tank once I realized that this is not a scuba dive shop easy. My neighborhood really does not help. I also am not sure if any of the PTO clubs have CO2 tank in reserve. Granted it is my responsibility to make sure the pistols' cylinders are filled.

Finally to have a scuba tank I can get away with it, with a CO2 tank, as I find out later, probably will not fly in the face of my landlord.

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:26 am

I may have missed this info somewhere else but --- worldwide, over the 20+ years that we have been using CO2 and CA in precision air gun shooting, how many catastrophic failures of cylinders have been documented?? Of these, how many have produced any injuries??

Gnr527 · Post by **Gnr527** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:46 pm

Just picked up on this thread and speaking from across the pond a couple of points surprise me.

1. I'd go along with PaulB - a lot of discussion about safe cylinders ( I use an FWB Model 2 so it is the lower pressure Co2) but I cannot recollect any specific instances of failure. Don't get me wrong, as I am sure there have been cases, but it would be nice to see factual information to enable a reasoned assessment.

2. When I got my Model 2 I read about and was concerned at the possibility of difficulty with Co2 supply - lots of negative concern.
Here in the UK we have 2Kg Co2 fire extinguishers readily available - reasonably priced, filling fitting compatible, easily carried and easier to use.
I would be surprised if most other countries didnt have something similar.

John

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AP:Expired seldom used cylinders vs New daily used cylinders

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