Gee, when I suggested trying Basics since they had tested so well, many of you sneered and insisted you would use only pellets that "would score a 10.9 when I shoot a 10.9."
Not that any of them ever would. (pellets or shooters)
RWS Meisterkugeln 4.5mm 0.53g v Qiang Yuan Match 4.5mm 0.53g
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Strange. In Vancouver I've always paid at least $1 more for Basics than for Hobbys. Being so much closer to the magnetic North Pole must flip the pricing or something. Basics always come in a blister pack with plastic and cardboard, a moderate pain to open. Hobby are in a tin, no other packaging. Perhaps they're marketed differently in the USA? I've got an order in for a case of Basic with my local gun shop... but I'd better follow up as they still haven't called to let me know how many are in a case nor when they can bring them in. Someone thought maybe 5 sleeves in a case, which sounds weirdly low, and someone else at the counter was saying 10 which sounded closer to right. Anyone know?SMBeyer wrote: I believe Hobby pellets are above Basic. At least they are price wise. Hobby's are $1 a tin more than Basic. In my testing R10, Meisterkugln, and Basic all shot very similar. Hobby however shot noticeably worse but thats ok with me Basics are cheaper anyway.
Scott
And Rover, I don't recall ever being among the ranks of the anti-Basic crew. Sure, I've seen the sneering, but RWS Diabolo Basic pellets shoot just fine for me.
Everyone repeat after me
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
now, breathe easier and go dry fire some more.
The worst possible group you get from any decent pellet will be a 10.5 or better..... so why have this discussion??????
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
Pellet testing for air pistol is a waste of time, I should be dryfiring instead.
now, breathe easier and go dry fire some more.
The worst possible group you get from any decent pellet will be a 10.5 or better..... so why have this discussion??????
I hear this sort of stuff about secret shortcuts to success in my trade all the time. Every noob wants to know 'what's the secret of Stradivari' when there is no secret. The guy was a brilliant craftsman who apprenticed to the greatest maker in Cremona (his daddy was a rich merchant so buying into the apprenticeship at 14 was a breeze) and proceeded to study hard. For decades. Before ever putting a label in his own work. But people don't want to hear that it takes hard work to get good scores, no matter what the field. There's a chemistry professor from Hungary teaching in Texas who for decades has been spouting nonsense about how he's discovered the secret of Stadivari. A few different secrets actually. But each one is 'the one!' Says one day his fiddles will be recognised as the equals of those legendary masterpieces. Nope, not gonna happen Mr. Nagyvary. Guy's enthusiastic, I'll give him that, but trash talking the greatest violin maker of all time and saying there are shortcuts, well, that's about the same as thinking pellet brand XYZ is the secret to a World Cup gold medal in AP. Just doesn't work that way. Not in real life anyway. But there's no shortage of lazy people (or to be fair, as in Conradin's case, people with significant disability - and I'm not trying to beat him up with this rant, not much anyway) who want shortcuts. Easy paths to success. Wouldn't it be nice? But that's like planning your future based on buying lottery tickets and planning to win. Only worse, because no 'magic bullet' will let anyone score 10's all the time.
Well, I am already done with this thread, but since you mention my trade also, I do have to have a SLIGHT disagreement. There IS a secret, in the varnish. But on the other hand, you still need craftsmanship, and that takes time. There is no short cut. Lots of time. Decades. Also both you and I know the time to varnish them, it is ridiculously laborious, detailed, difficult, time constrained, and time consuming. The actual construction does not take that much time after the initial years of apprenticeship. It is the finishing and the choice of the right wood that is the hallmark of a master, and due to the slight variation of each product, you also have to calculate the minute difference of string gauges, plus the choice of strings' chemical composition and ratio. If you use gut, that is even more complicated. Even if you have the formula of the varnish, you cannot put it on all the mass production Chinese made violins and expect them to sound better. Finally the instrument itself, after completion, takes time to mature.Gerard wrote:I hear this sort of stuff about secret shortcuts to success in my trade all the time. Every noob wants to know 'what's the secret of Stradivari' when there is no secret. The guy was a brilliant craftsman who apprenticed to the greatest maker in Cremona (his daddy was a rich merchant so buying into the apprenticeship at 14 was a breeze) and proceeded to study hard. For decades. Before ever putting a label in his own work. But people don't want to hear that it takes hard work to get good scores, no matter what the field. There's a chemistry professor from Hungary teaching in Texas who for decades has been spouting nonsense about how he's discovered the secret of Stradivari. A few different secrets actually.
As for the origins of the thread, I was merely trying to compare two economic non top of the line products to see which one is worth buying. QY-Match vs RWS Meisterkugeln. I don't know why people think that I was trying to see if QY-Match will be the one that give me a gold medal. If we in our household fired 2 cans a day, that can add up. RWS is much more expensive than QY-Match. Turns out it does not matter not because of the failed test, or even subsequent successful test by me or others. The seller of the QY-Match massively inflates their packing and shipping fees so that whatever price advantage of QY-Match is gone.
As an annoying old friend of mine used to say, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree regarding varnish. Wood selection? Please. Some of the finest sounding instruments of the violin family have been made of some of the lowliest, crudest of materials. Understanding the basic acoustical physics and knowing how to apply this in the carving and tuning and relative tuning of the plates is vastly more important than wood selection, though obviously finer woods give one an advantage at the start. Secret varnish recipes? Stradivari used the same generic varnish as everyone on his street, his raw materials purchased from the same supplier, the same materials used by furniture makers and painters in Cremona. Nothing very special. But carefully blended, properly cooked, beautifully applied. Same for every aspect of his work. But this is a shooting forum, not a luthiery forum. And by the way Conradin, I didn't know you were a luthier. Colour me surprised. Or are you saying you're a chemist?
As for the pellets; two tins per day? I'll have to fall back on pilkguns' advice. You SERIOUSLY need to spend more time dry firing!
As for the pellets; two tins per day? I'll have to fall back on pilkguns' advice. You SERIOUSLY need to spend more time dry firing!
I build, restore, early keyboard instrumenbts; and within my ability, dealing with tracker pipe organs. Sometimes people call me a tech in early keyboard instrument. I have not built an instruments for more than 11 years, and you guessed it...disability struck me down. The last one I made was a Rauschpfieffe. I restore my own tracker organ, I restore my own Renaissance Regal, I built my own Blower Box, and of course I built and restore harpsichords and clavichords. I also can do some fortepiano stuff if needed. I can do some minor harp repair.
Hide glue is sacred, but Fish glue is the practical one.
Studying in WIlliam an dMary also means that I got to be very close with the instrument makers there in Colonial Williamsburg, I got to see them make instrument the OLD way. Every single tool is hand made.
I know lots of luthiers. Ifshin violins for example. To many private luthiers to name. My current project is working with Stevan Rakić of Serbia of constructing a early-mid Renaissance Cello with extremely low pitch at around 370.
When I mean wood selection it has something to do with aging more than the type of wood itself. Sure cheap wood from home depot can work, but through time it will show its problems, or lack of the ability to mature. I have played on 300 years old instruments before, and the choice, or rather the right kind of mature wood, is very important.
Recorder and wooden flute makers tend to use wood that is at least 20 years dried/cured. Then it is all vanish, linseed oil, all those good stuff. Cheap wood will sound the same as a picky wood that a master will choose, but 20 years down the line you can hear the difference. I know, I have instruments that are very very old, and I restore instruments that use the cheapest type of wood.
Anyway, this is WAY OFF topic. The only thing in common with luthiers and an arm forum will be the art of stock making. But that is a totally different subject which I absolutely have no knowledge about. Hard wood and hide glue does not work well together.
Hide glue is sacred, but Fish glue is the practical one.
Studying in WIlliam an dMary also means that I got to be very close with the instrument makers there in Colonial Williamsburg, I got to see them make instrument the OLD way. Every single tool is hand made.
I know lots of luthiers. Ifshin violins for example. To many private luthiers to name. My current project is working with Stevan Rakić of Serbia of constructing a early-mid Renaissance Cello with extremely low pitch at around 370.
When I mean wood selection it has something to do with aging more than the type of wood itself. Sure cheap wood from home depot can work, but through time it will show its problems, or lack of the ability to mature. I have played on 300 years old instruments before, and the choice, or rather the right kind of mature wood, is very important.
Recorder and wooden flute makers tend to use wood that is at least 20 years dried/cured. Then it is all vanish, linseed oil, all those good stuff. Cheap wood will sound the same as a picky wood that a master will choose, but 20 years down the line you can hear the difference. I know, I have instruments that are very very old, and I restore instruments that use the cheapest type of wood.
Anyway, this is WAY OFF topic. The only thing in common with luthiers and an arm forum will be the art of stock making. But that is a totally different subject which I absolutely have no knowledge about. Hard wood and hide glue does not work well together.
Crossed wires. I was referring not to lumberyard, kiln dried garbage wood. Kilns destroy tonewood, much worse than sandpaper does though that's to be avoided too. Rather I referred to the many examples of woods such as knotty pine or mystery conifers used in tops by impoverished but brilliant luthiers in old Europe. Walnut, poplar, willow, other non-standard woods used for ribs and backs. Or like the 7-plank spruce top and two-piece pearwood back of the Mingazzi doublebass I've got in the shop now awaiting a C-extension and some edge work. 104 years old, the thing has a sound so massive and so sweet and clear that I'm afraid the lesser basses in my house are getting jealous. A master knows how wood moves, understands vibration and how to release it into a hall. Not just using old pieces. That's just the beginning, like the lovely tools and solid bench. The dance which leaves just exactly the right amount of wood in every place and no extra is what differentiates a violin shaped object from a piece of history.
Sounds like we ought to swap notes. I passed through Oakland 2 years ago on the way with an instrument to the ISB convension at SF State and it reminded me how much I miss San Francisco. Maybe we'll meet sometime.
Sounds like we ought to swap notes. I passed through Oakland 2 years ago on the way with an instrument to the ISB convension at SF State and it reminded me how much I miss San Francisco. Maybe we'll meet sometime.
You probably played one of the instruments in the De Bellis collection of SFSU which I once was responsible for. They have a Dolmetsch, not in good shape. I keep forgetting to ask them that I will fix it for them. But then again I have seen enough of 1905 Dolmetsch/Chicking whatever that nothing really exicte me. I don' touch the Clementi, it is in perfect shape. And yes, I play on them.
Off-topic indeed. Doubly so considering that Conradin seems to be under the impression that I've got even the slightest relationship with pipe organs. I think. I'm a violinmaker, specializing in the doublebass for the most part, and mentioned having travelled through Oakland on the way to the International Society of Bassists biannual convention in San Francisco in 2011, with a doublebass I had made and was bringing to the maker's competition there. Guess I could have elaborated previously... but I was already somewhat embarrassed by having taken this pellet thread so far off track with my Stradivari comments. Oh well. It is a somewhat useless discussion of pellet quality anyway so no matter.
Conradin; no, sorry, I have no knowledge of those people of whom you spoke. And my 'apprenticeship' was with the Vancouver Public Library, then the UBC Music Library. There was no one working here interested in teaching me in the 1980's, so I taught myself. Now I'm just the guy bassists go to when they want their instruments to work better, though I'm shifting towards being a maker primarily which was what I meant to do when I started this adventure.
Conradin; no, sorry, I have no knowledge of those people of whom you spoke. And my 'apprenticeship' was with the Vancouver Public Library, then the UBC Music Library. There was no one working here interested in teaching me in the 1980's, so I taught myself. Now I'm just the guy bassists go to when they want their instruments to work better, though I'm shifting towards being a maker primarily which was what I meant to do when I started this adventure.
Now wouldn't you have guessed that my tastes run more to Colonial Period rope tension bass and snare drums. You know, the kind you can hear for miles. I enjoy pounding the snot out of them, even having traveled to Basel for Fasnacht.
After my personal pellet testing, I agree with Pilk.
BTW Conradin, you need to get rid of those crap PCPs and buy this:
viewtopic.php?t=40608
After my personal pellet testing, I agree with Pilk.
BTW Conradin, you need to get rid of those crap PCPs and buy this:
viewtopic.php?t=40608
If I weren't so fixated on getting my hands on a Pardini K58, that FWB 103 would have me jumping to send the cash. But I dunno, the K58 just seems so much more attractive. And just to p*ss Rover off (not really) I've got a Pardini K12 on the way in the next couple of weeks. PCP doesn't suck, but neither does SSP, and as Wayne said... one day, it will be mine.