Suggestions for an entry air pistol

Goldy · Post by **Goldy** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:48 pm

Hi,

I am interested in getting a starter air pistol to help me train more often since I can shoot it in my garage. What are some brands that you would recommend and how much should I be looking to pay for a pistol? I am totally new to air so I have many more questions than answers. My main goal with it would be to work on shooting technique for bullseye and free pistol.

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:46 pm

Goldy wrote:...how much should I be looking to pay for a pistol?

How much you got?

I would strongly recommend using the search function on this forum - this discussion has been had many times and quickly gets involved. The IZH 46M is about the least expensive serious beginner pistol at about $560 new and it goes up to ~$2000 for a high-end pistol with assorted bells and whistles. Patiently searching out used pistols is probably the best way to go on a budget. Once you have a price range in mind there are choices between pre-charged pneumatic (PCP), single stroke pneumatic (SSP) and even a springer with antirecoil mechanism comes up occasionally. Oh, and if you get a PCP you will need a scuba tank or at least a quality pump. But you really need to do a little more research to narrow down what you may be interested in.

Roger

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:36 pm

There are two way you want to look at it, and that is, are you an absolute beginner in firearm/pistol, or you have many years of experience but just new to the shooting sport?

If you are the former, I would suggestion getting a pneumatic spring air pistol, whether it is the FWB 65/80/90/101/102/103, or IZH46, or a Walther.
You double your shooting training also as dumbbell exercises. Your scores and groupings may not be pretty, but that is not the point, the point is for you to get strong enough to maintain good posture, footwork, trigger control, endurance, strength, etc. Do that anywhere from half a year to 2 years, and once and awhile pick up a friend's PCP air pistol to test fire. When you begin to feel that your friend's PCP air pistol is light as feather and your arm is set in stone, and you trigger finger is totally independent and in command, then save up money and buy THIS BEST of THE BEST. That would be Steyr LP10E, Morini CM162EI, Walther LP400 Alu, etc.
If you are the latter, then I would suggest you to buy a second hand PCP to start with. However, it does not have to be best of the best, but you need to make sure it WAS thebest of the best of its time. Good examples are Walther LP300 Club, a Pardini K10, or Steyr LP1.

Neon21 · Post by **Neon21** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:31 am

I think a pneumatic spring pistol is the right way to start if you don't want to spend much money.
Like a FWB 65 or if you have a little bit stronger arms (because it’s heavier) a FWB 100.
At least at the FWB 65 has a recoil so you can train for FP.

CO2 is cheap at the moment because nobody wants them anymore, but you have to get a gas bottle and someone who fills it up.
Compressed Air is the state of the art, but expensive – also here you need a bottle or a special air pump
With the pneumatic spring pistols you’re independent, but it costs energy to cock!

I don’t know how much you have to pay for a Feinwerkbau 65 or 100 in your country, usually they are sold for $200 - $350 in Germany..

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:38 am

I intentionally lock the recoil system and set it to center fire mode on my FWB65 so to make it as physically demanding as possible. FWB65 usually can sell anywhere between $450 to $800, depends on the condition, the type of grip you have and the variation of the model (in which case, FWB65, FWB65 Model II (ie, Junior) FWB80, and FWB90). I would discourage anyone using the 90 because it has an electronic trigger. The idea is to start with a pistol as physically demanding as possible. Use regular grip if you can help it, instead of the sport grip. Add as much barrel weight as possible. Basically, make yourself miserable, and the award will come when someday you pick up a Steyr and you think it is made of feathers.

slofyr · Post by **slofyr** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:21 am

IMO the spring-piston pistols are not the best way to begin precision shooting. I shot the FWB65 and FWB80 for a few years back when they were the latest-greatest in the game. The FWB's are heavy, only moderately ergonomic, have a high center-of-gravity, and have a towering bore axis and sight line. Compared to the IZH46, the FWB's are sort of like driving a dump truck. The Izzy isn't a lightweight either, but its mass sits lower in the hand. Its sight line and bore is also lower, and with few mechanical parts moving during cocking and firing its a more pleasant pistol in application. Put a Rink grip on an Izzy and it becomes a very good cross-trainer for 50-meter pistol.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:30 pm

There are a lot of accessories for FWB65 to change all the uncomfortableness that you describe. I own a full set of front sigh. I am about to change my rear sight, I have one barrel weight which I did not install. etc.

Of course the IZH46M is better, but the point I was trying to make is to use the best pneumatic spring air pistol, and shooting it by setting it up as difficult and uncomfortable as possible.

If the idea is to start off comfortable, a Walter LP300 is easy to find, and a boat load of lesser known PCP pistols, plus the CO2 pistols. etc.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:01 pm

While the pistol may be important, since you are training for two totally different disciplines there are other considerations.

I'm sure Conradin will happily endorse the following training method that was just forwarded to me by champion John Zurek:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/iDnEkFSMRi ... autoplay=1

jpsIII · Post by **jpsIII** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:59 pm

A match-grade CO2 pistol should not be dismissed...and the big gas bottle may come with it since the owner may no longer need it. Filling should be available at welding-supply places and a big tank will handle many, many cylinder recharges. For the big tank, the internal "siphon" is necessary, as are extra cylinder(s) for the pistol. A hidden question is whether the ages of the tank and cylinders are certified for ISSF matches...and whether you can find new (or newer) ones. (In my view, CO2 is "safer" than PCP because of its far lower pressure. But that should not be a determining factor.)

I am very happy with my Walther CP-3.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:10 pm

Rover read my mind, knowing that I like things pink, such as one of the dude's wearing a pink ear protection. The only thing that annoys me is when the student started shooting, he should have yelled, "Your dress pattern is, like, so passe'!!" that comes with a valley girl accent.

In all seriousness, I actually shot Moritz Minder style on the range during training yesterday, it is actually not a bad way of shooting it, you just need to think about how to adjust your sight, or the way you view your sight. It is gangster style but palms up. You can do it by turning your compensator 90', and lightly attach a rear sight to line up the now 90' off front sight.

Goldy · Post by **Goldy** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:33 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions, time for some internet research.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:43 am

It looks like you got useless info, since everything out there was recommended.....no way to choose.

As a firearm trainer, I would go with the FWB 65; it worked for me. Its "handicaps" are just what you need for the real world and the price is usually low (I've seen them for as little as $100). Their accuracy is as good as anything available. Its cost is a one shot, since nothing more than a tin of pellets is necessary.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:47 pm

On a serious note Rover, what is your recommendation of the setting of the FWB65? Also as I recall, FWB65, by itself, has four different versions; not counting the 80 and the 90.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:59 pm

Conradin, I've owned three (two 65s and a 90). I bought my first one at Camp Perry when I could see I needed training help.

As much as the next guy I like new toys so I moved on. At the time, there was NOTHING to compare to the 90s electronic trigger. I loved it and shot my personal best EVER with one. This makes me laugh at guys who drank the PCP Kool-Ade. Unfortunately, it was not dependable.

I'm shooting an LP1 now, only because I got a complete set-up from a retiring shooter at an extremely low price, but as you know, I was using an FWB 2 with complete success.

You know what they say; "You can't buy points." I wouldn't feel handicapped in the least with any of the APs mentioned here and would buy a cheap 65 anytime.

Re: The setting; try 'em both and see what happens. Personally, I never had much use for the "recoil mode" of the 65, but I'm not knocking it.

John C · Post by **John C** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:01 am

Goldy;

Are you shooting with the Utah Precision Markmanship Society? They shoot up at the U of U, and frequently have matches.

It is (or at least was when I was there) an active club with many AP shooters. Ask around to see if anyone is selling a used pistol. That way you can try before you buy. Plus, the club has a number of pistols from Daisy Avanti's to LP10's for the university team and shooting classes. You might be able to try some of those out, as well.

It's also a great club. You should consider joining, if you're not already a member.

-John

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:25 am

Rover,m so you think the electronic trigger of the 90 is actually an advantage?

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:20 pm

At the time there was nothing to compare with the M90. It boggled the minds of shooters I let shoot it. I wish I had one on my LP1, as good as the Steyr trigger is. There is absolutely no "break"; you just keep squeezing until the shot is downrange.

I think the current gun I'd like to own is the Morini with the electronic trigger.

conradin · Post by **conradin** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:33 pm

I think we have reached a point which we take electronic triggers for granted. I shot the best (FP) with my Morini, but it just feel strange and alien to me. My Buhag (East German Hammerli/TOZ clone) feels more natural.
Personally I have never tried an electronic trigger AP, maybe for the next tournament I will find someone who owns one and let me try it. Take away the need to cock in order to dry fire, I don't know what else an electronic trigger can provide as far as advantage is concerned. My LP10 has two stages, while my LP1 has one stage. I wonder if it will feel different on an electronic trigger, in both cases. Plus what if you are one of those who wants 1kg trigger weight...

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:04 pm

[quote="conradin"] Take away the need to cock in order to dry fire, quote]

Ideally dry fire should, as close as possible, replicate live fire. So working the lever should be part of dry fire routine as it is with live fire. I often see Morini AP owners holding on target going click click click. And I wonder what they are trying to achieve?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:36 pm

I've seen a shooter at our club do the same with his Morini, always 3 clicks. He's about a 570 guy on a good day, so I don't question it too much. But my guess would be that it's a test of one's follow-through. If the 2nd and even the 3rd clicks can honestly be called good shots then the follow-through is remarkably stable.