Olympic Target Pistol

[641]

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[slofyr]

What is the Japanese equivalent of the Steyr LP 10? If there is no Japanese equivalent please answer the question, "why?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics#Japan

"During the Tokugawa period in Japan, starting in the 17th century, the government imposed very restrictive controls on the small number of gunsmiths in the nation, thereby ensuring the almost total prohibition of firearms. Japan, in the postwar period, has had gun regulation which is strict in principle. Gun licensing is required, and is heavily regulated by the National Police Agency of Japan. The weapons law begins by stating "No-one shall possess a fire-arm or fire-arms or a sword or swords", and very few exceptions are allowed. The only types of firearms which a Japanese citizen may acquire are rifles or shotguns. Sportsmen are permitted to possess rifles or shotguns for hunting and for skeet and trap shooting, but only after submitting to a lengthy licensing procedure. Without a license, a Japanese citizen may not even hold a gun in his or her hands.
The former ruling Liberal Democratic Party, in response to violent crimes by minors and gangsters, has called for rewriting the constitution to include even further stringent firearms control measures. In January 2008 Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda in a policy speech called for tighter regulations on firearms."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun_laws#Japan

"In Japan, any air gun that fires a metallic projectile is restricted as a firearm, so only airsoft-type guns are readily available."

[Gerard]

'Why?' as in 'Why is there no Japanese-made high end competition air pistol?' Or is it 'Why is there no made-for-Japan version of the LP10?' Sorry, your meaning doesn't seem terribly clear.

Seems to me more likely the former. In which case I'd venture an opinion, perhaps baseless, that the Japanese domestic market is primarily interested in airsoft replicas, not pellet guns. And that's likely arising out of the extremely limiting laws in place in Japan regarding various weapons. The Japanese gun manufacturers initially developed the airsoft platform as a way to stay in business after most domestic firearms were outright banned and even collectors were put under extremely restrictive control. In any case, as I understand things at present in Japan, owning a pistol capable of firing a lead pellet of significant mass (0.4grams or more) at a velocity greater than 400fps (the Steyr is typically set up to fire at well over 500fps) would result in a fine or even jail time. Not much of a 10metre AP market in that sort of environment. So the market would be primarily for export, and without domestic support that seems something unlikely to develop for financial reasons, international marketing being an expensive proposition.

Edit - ah, I see someone has been much more thorough in their reply...

[jr]

Even Tomoyuki Matsuda had this to say:

"[Matsuda] combines his shooting career with working in the police force. "I am not a professional athlete. I am still a police officer. It is impossible to become a professional shooter in Japan. I didn't become a police officer because I wanted to become a professional athlete. I became a shooter because I was police officer." (Athlete, 21 Nov 2010)

http://www.london2012.com/athlete/matsu ... i-1022039/

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It's good to remember that many very high quality rifles and shotguns are made in Japan (although it really does seem redundant to say "made in Japan" and "high quality" in the same sentence):

http://gunblog.com/the-japanese-firearm ... jim-torres

[Gerard]

Well at least we can all be grateful for small blessings, such as the freedom of access to Japanese knives. Not so with swords perhaps, as there seem to be some restrictions there, but at least we all have access to fine cutlery such as sashimi knives. Seems a bit odd to me that they allow replica handguns (many of the most accurate reproductions are Japanese airsoft, often even of the same quality as the original firearm versions) while restricting access to pellet guns for competition or recreation. Similarly bizarre reasoning to the knife laws in the UK, and the way pellet guns are being encroached upon there as well. And for further amusing inconsistencies among law enforcement perspectives; in the UK, noise suppressors are actually encouraged for pellet guns, where in the US they are severely restricted (and insanely expensive as a result, often costing more than the firearm they are to make quieter though made of a few bits of metal, easily machined by anyone with modest skills) and in Canada outright illegal.

[Isabel1130]

I spent the last ten weeks in Japan, and will be going back for several months at least twice a year since my husband has a job over there that will last at least three years.

Japan is gun mad. They love them, and they have some of the most beautiful graphic magazines I have ever seen, devoted to guns.

What is legal over there is Airsoft, and they are extremely popular, but since their Airsoft pistols and rifles are exact replicas of the real thing by big name manufacturers, I have been told they would probably be confiscated by customs if you tried to bring one into the US.

I may try to acquire one when I go over in October, and I was told that one of the Marine shooters stationed in Okinawa, trained exclusively with one of these pistols, and came back to the US to shoot really impressive conventional pistol scores almost immediately on his return.

[kevinweiho]

How about a Chinese-made high end competition airpistol/air rifle?

http://www.jianshe-emei.com/product.shtml

[sparky]

And still, their top shooters use Steyrs, Morinis, and Pardinis.

[RobinC]

And for further amusing inconsistencies among law enforcement perspectives; in the UK, noise suppressors are actually encouraged for pellet guns,

Not sure where you got this from, they are not "encouraged" but are freely permitted, but for firearms they are on licence.

[RobStubbs]

And still, their top shooters use Steyrs, Morinis, and Pardinis.

Shooters will (99.9% of the time) use the best tool for the job. The bottom line is Japan doesn't make anything good enough and neither does China.

Rob.

[Alexander]

The bottom line is Japan doesn't make anything good enough and neither does China.

Ah. Ah-hah.
So two Olympic gold medals (last one 2008) are not "good enough" for you.
I see. You are indeed one choosy fellow.

Alexander

[rmca]

Alexander, I believe you misunderstood Rob.

The tread is about a chinese range of target pistols/rifles.

He was talking about China and Japan not producing equipment comparable to that from europe.

He wasn't talking about the shooters.

[Alexander]

Alexander, I believe you misunderstood Rob.
The tread is about a chinese range of target pistols/rifles.
He was talking about China and Japan not producing equipment comparable to that from europe.
He wasn't talking about the shooters.

No. _You_ misunderstood him and me. Because you did not read precisely.
I understood him purrfectly correct. It was not a real logical rebuttal of course. I only deflated his false opinion by two counter-examples.

Alexander

[seamaster]

http://www.jianshe-emei.com/product.shtml

Those emei rifles and pistols are Chinese made Walther. There was a Walther company news stating that effect, with picture of Walther president shaking hands with Emei officials.

Wondering what those prices are in China or if you can ordering them from China.

[rmca]

So two Olympic gold medals (last one 2008) are not "good enough" for you.

I only deflated his false opinion by two counter-examples.

Ok then... witch gold medals were they and what equipment made in China or Japan was used to accomplish that?

[seamaster]

I am bewildered by this talk of China and Japan can't produce those Olympic air pistol/ rifles.

Not a very bright question, even dumber to proffer an answer.

[Tim S]

The smallbore rifles appear to be copies of the Anschutz 2013 rather than Walther. I can't speak for the air rifles. That said Chinese Athletes in ISSF finals are visibly using Anschutz products; the Emei rifles are not exact copies.

[Alexander]

So two Olympic gold medals (last one 2008) are not "good enough" for you.

I only deflated his false opinion by two counter-examples.

Ok then... which gold medals were they and what equipment made in China or Japan was used to accomplish that?

Women's 25 metres sport pistol. Both won with a Chinese pistol (not the same sub-model I think) by a Chinese shooter.

Alexaner

[Hemmers]

Chen Ying won the Gold in 2008 with a Chinese Pistol.

But beyond "it's Chinese", no one seems to know what it is. Nor does it actually seem to be available for sale.

So really, it doesn't count. If I can't go out and buy one, then the answer is "No, there's isn't a quality Chinese Sport Pistol" (or more precisely - there are some really good ones - but it's academic because you can't have one).

If the Chinese team have a gunsmith capable of producing immense guns but only for the Chinese team, that doesn't mean there is "a good Chinese gun" you can go and buy. It means they're doing their own custom thing.

That's a very different proposition to being able to go and buy a quality pistol off the shelf.

[rmca]

Chen Ying won the Gold in 2008 with a Chinese Pistol.

But beyond "it's Chinese", no one seems to know what it is. Nor does it actually seem to be available for sale.

So really, it doesn't count. If I can't go out and buy one, then the answer is "No, there's isn't a quality Chinese Sport Pistol" (or more precisely - there are some really good ones - but it's academic because you can't have one).

If the Chinese team have a gunsmith capable of producing immense guns but only for the Chinese team, that doesn't mean there is "a good Chinese gun" you can go and buy. It means they're doing their own custom thing.

That's a very different proposition to being able to go and buy a quality pistol off the shelf.

That is also my opinion on the subject.
They can have a very good custom pistol, but as far as I know there isn't any commercial produced "quality match gun".