My own personal pity party that is. I went into a 10m air pistol match with such high expectations (part of the problem?) that when I crashed and burned with a 529, I didn’t know what hit me.
The setup was a match on a Sunday. Friday I worked from home because of a snow storm so I snuck in 2 practice sessions. Saturday a couple more. Each time I show 20 or 30 shots on my 8.6m basement range on full size targets. I was hitting 94s and 95s each and every time (attached target is representative). I had been practicing. I had been giving myself positive affirmations. I was ready.
Even though I had never shot this pistol in competition or even at 10m. Those were not problems on my mind when the match started.
In the 15 minute sighter period I tried to figure out if my sights had to change. I was so all over the place, I couldn’t be sure. I suddenly found myself with a very unstable hold. Dry firing at the back of the target before the period started showed I had a nice steady trigger pull working for me. But now I was creating a shotgun pattern on my sighter target! Couldn’t be sure to move sights. I did move sights after about 10 shots into match. Post-match analysis (see second image) showed I perhaps should have moved them down a bit more.
Match starts. I’m shooting 8s and 9s. I start wonder what’s going on. But I don’t think it’s nerves. It’s my 3rd match at this club. I’ve done more dangerous things than standing in a room full of acquaintances on a Sunday morning having fun shooting air gun. I consciously start thinking about my process; I go through it verbally, I dry fire it. I talk myself through shots. Process is not breaking down.
I just don’t have a hold. What was there for 2 days is just gone. How to find it again?!
As usual I’m the last guy finished. I even rushed through the 2nd to last B-40/4 target thinking I wasn’t going to finish in the 90 minutes (my worst 12 shot group naturally). Never felt I had the time to sit down and reset. Probably did, I didn’t calculate time remaining correctly; lesson learned was to start using my own count-down timer (speaker wire snipped!) instead of doing math in my head using a watch (couldn’t see match clock because of sun glare).
So I’ve been in a bit of shock over it. I’ve had to reevaluate if I really do feel stress/fear/anxiety when shooting in a match versus my basement. I honesty just don’t think so. Stress for me was being upside down at 800 ft in a C152 when I hit wake turbulence. Shooting a gun when no one is shooting back? Fun!
I’ve done my introspection. But I’m putting this out to start a discussion. When and how do you think stress comes into play? How do you detect it? More importantly, how do you handle it?
humbly,
Jab
Pity party has to end
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
Pity party has to end
- Attachments
-
- One of many 94s or 95s shot in the days leading up to match.
-
- All 60 match shots plotted using ISSF iphone app.
- Match Shots.jpg (12.47 KiB) Viewed 5134 times
Re: Pity party has to end
Use visualization and imagering to replay and refine shooting process, don't use words, neither in your mind: only visualization.jabberwo wrote: I consciously start thinking about my process; I go through it verbally, I dry fire it. I talk myself through shots. Process is not breaking down.
A little self talk it's ok to encourage you, but use only images and visualization for the shooting process.
Re: Pity party has to end
I think that would describe my typical shot process. I visualize/do focus on front sight, raising over bull, sight alignment, taking in breath, settling down above bull. Letting out enough breath to line of white beneath bull. Sight picture. Wait for steady hold - see the hold - see the hold, magic happens (I don't try to consciously start the trigger press).LukeP wrote:
Use visualization and imagering to replay and refine shooting process, don't use words
thanks
You think I was kidding about the beer? I practice at home a lot and I've found ONE beer does help if I'm feeling antsy. Maybe the Germans have the right idea with pubs in their shooting clubs.
I've told this story before, but I had a Russian neuro-surgeon tell me about having a shot or two of vodka before an operation to reduce essential tremor.
To be more specifically helpful: you should have known your sights were fine. To start second guessing that is a disaster. Tension is often reflected in high shots, where you start squeezing the grip on the trigger pull.
I personally like a lot of shots (15 or so) during the sighting period to settle into the zone and not to mess with the sights.
Beer! Breakfast of Champions!
I've told this story before, but I had a Russian neuro-surgeon tell me about having a shot or two of vodka before an operation to reduce essential tremor.
To be more specifically helpful: you should have known your sights were fine. To start second guessing that is a disaster. Tension is often reflected in high shots, where you start squeezing the grip on the trigger pull.
I personally like a lot of shots (15 or so) during the sighting period to settle into the zone and not to mess with the sights.
Beer! Breakfast of Champions!
I just love a "wet shooter" we ought not brag to much about them before our AP's get designated assault weapons. I should only have shot a 526 feeling unsteady, you wouldn't hear me complaining. Yeah your composite 60 shows several seven's and eight's, again I personally wouldn't complain. If you normally shoot 570's plus then I would feel I had a bad day. Amongst all the varied pistol disciplines I really enjoy the AP the most and shoot FP for the humiliation needed to keep my head on straight. Remember you are forgiven for your being human on occasion. "Doc"
-
bpscCheney
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
I recently just did a similar thing in SBR at the Intercollegiate Rifle Club Championships. I had been practicing and was able to hit right around 575 580 and go to the match and my hold just opens up. I got frustrated by my inability to have a hold and got tense and this made my hold even worse. The best thing to do, as was told to me many times but I never took away, is to just let the score take care of itself. Shooting sports allow one to take a single shot at a time. If you focus on shooting the best shot that you can every single time then there is nothing to worry about. The score will take of itself.
Here's my 2 cents:
1- Take a stopwatch to the match. It doesn't have to "count down", it can just "count up". To me it's less stressing having it count up than seeing the time disappear...
2- Don't practice/train on the eve of a match. Just visualize... (It´s a golden rule over where... but often disregarded. And that normally equals bad results, and a comment like, yesterday I was shooting sooooo well...)
3- Set your sights on a 10 meter range, and then find out how many clicks do you need to adjust for basement shooting. 15 minutes preparation before the match is no place to be second guessing your sights. Just to adjust one click or two if need be... This to me was the cause of your problems!
4- You were probably holding your pistol too tight. This can happen if your nervous, stress, tense or even frustrated... Did your hand get red? More than normal?
5- With the stopwatch you can pace yourself during the match, and find time to sit down for one or two minutes. This helps me a lot! Use the stopwatch when you train as well, so you know how long you take to do ten, fifteen, twenty shoots... You also know if you are behind or ahead in the match. For reference when you hit 45 minutes, you should have done thirty match shoots.
6- Did you wear ear plugs/mufflers? The added noise on a range can distract you, and make you blink when you shoot, and there goes the front sight...
7- Don't "force" your shoots. If something isn't right, put the gun down, take a breath and try again. You're not obliged to shoot every time you raise the gun...
7- Some times if you have a bad shot it helps to stop, sit down and think on how to make one of those good shots you do when training. Then resume the match.
8- Last but not least, next time the wheels start to fall off the wagon (and they will!), the only thing you can do if focus on your Technic... the rest will come after that.
You have my complete sympathy! Been there and done that more often than I'd wished! Hope this helps.
1- Take a stopwatch to the match. It doesn't have to "count down", it can just "count up". To me it's less stressing having it count up than seeing the time disappear...
2- Don't practice/train on the eve of a match. Just visualize... (It´s a golden rule over where... but often disregarded. And that normally equals bad results, and a comment like, yesterday I was shooting sooooo well...)
3- Set your sights on a 10 meter range, and then find out how many clicks do you need to adjust for basement shooting. 15 minutes preparation before the match is no place to be second guessing your sights. Just to adjust one click or two if need be... This to me was the cause of your problems!
4- You were probably holding your pistol too tight. This can happen if your nervous, stress, tense or even frustrated... Did your hand get red? More than normal?
5- With the stopwatch you can pace yourself during the match, and find time to sit down for one or two minutes. This helps me a lot! Use the stopwatch when you train as well, so you know how long you take to do ten, fifteen, twenty shoots... You also know if you are behind or ahead in the match. For reference when you hit 45 minutes, you should have done thirty match shoots.
6- Did you wear ear plugs/mufflers? The added noise on a range can distract you, and make you blink when you shoot, and there goes the front sight...
7- Don't "force" your shoots. If something isn't right, put the gun down, take a breath and try again. You're not obliged to shoot every time you raise the gun...
7- Some times if you have a bad shot it helps to stop, sit down and think on how to make one of those good shots you do when training. Then resume the match.
8- Last but not least, next time the wheels start to fall off the wagon (and they will!), the only thing you can do if focus on your Technic... the rest will come after that.
You have my complete sympathy! Been there and done that more often than I'd wished! Hope this helps.
Last edited by rmca on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A couple of nitpicks;
At 8.6 metres a 10 metre target is frankly HUGE. Scaling isn't only a percentage, but a percentage with compensation for the fact that the pellet diameter remains constant at 4.5mm, not scaling. So targets scaled for 8.6 metre use would likely be closer to 83% (guessing, from having run the numbers at a few different distances) of full scale. When going to a full 10 metre range, especially in the inherently stressful situation of a match (whether some shooters choose to acknowledge the stress or not), and shooting at the same full-scale targets now 1.4 metres further away, the black is going to look too small. Your sight picture is radically different between those two distances, which is an important consideration when training at scaled-down distances. Scoring at home isn't so important. Seeing a consistent sight picture is, as anything substantially different is going to toss a monkey wrench into your shot plan, making you think about it instead of just knowing it's right. Print at least one properly scaled black spot for your home distance, such that it sits the same diameter in your sights. Even consider slightly blurring the black dot you print if the edges are too clear compared to shooting at 10 metres. You want everything to look the same, even the relative size of the target paper square.
I practice at home at several distances, from 4 metres in my workshop at targets with about a 1" black circle, 6 metres in another part of the house, up to 10 metres when no one's at home and I can safely set that up. 6 metres and 10 metres seem virtually identical in terms of POI for my Pardini at the current velocity setting and pellets. 4 metres means if I want to group in the middle I have to click up about 4 clicks. So my pellet trajectory is passing upward through the 10 metre bullseye at 6 metres then dropping back down to the same point at 10. Guessing from there, I'd suggest your pistol sighted in for 8.6 metres is likely shooting between 1 and 3 clicks too high for 10 metres, depending on the pellet, pistol, relative heights of the front and rear sights to the barrel, and muzzle velocity. As others have said, sight it in for 10 metres and adapt one way or another for practice at your home range distance. When you're having an 'on' day is a great time to adjust the sights, not when things go sideways. Your pistol should be sighted in such that when you just know you shot a 10, the dang hole is dead centre, no question. Start clicking in any direction and you're as good as shooting holes in your boat, your confidence will leak away.
At 8.6 metres a 10 metre target is frankly HUGE. Scaling isn't only a percentage, but a percentage with compensation for the fact that the pellet diameter remains constant at 4.5mm, not scaling. So targets scaled for 8.6 metre use would likely be closer to 83% (guessing, from having run the numbers at a few different distances) of full scale. When going to a full 10 metre range, especially in the inherently stressful situation of a match (whether some shooters choose to acknowledge the stress or not), and shooting at the same full-scale targets now 1.4 metres further away, the black is going to look too small. Your sight picture is radically different between those two distances, which is an important consideration when training at scaled-down distances. Scoring at home isn't so important. Seeing a consistent sight picture is, as anything substantially different is going to toss a monkey wrench into your shot plan, making you think about it instead of just knowing it's right. Print at least one properly scaled black spot for your home distance, such that it sits the same diameter in your sights. Even consider slightly blurring the black dot you print if the edges are too clear compared to shooting at 10 metres. You want everything to look the same, even the relative size of the target paper square.
I practice at home at several distances, from 4 metres in my workshop at targets with about a 1" black circle, 6 metres in another part of the house, up to 10 metres when no one's at home and I can safely set that up. 6 metres and 10 metres seem virtually identical in terms of POI for my Pardini at the current velocity setting and pellets. 4 metres means if I want to group in the middle I have to click up about 4 clicks. So my pellet trajectory is passing upward through the 10 metre bullseye at 6 metres then dropping back down to the same point at 10. Guessing from there, I'd suggest your pistol sighted in for 8.6 metres is likely shooting between 1 and 3 clicks too high for 10 metres, depending on the pellet, pistol, relative heights of the front and rear sights to the barrel, and muzzle velocity. As others have said, sight it in for 10 metres and adapt one way or another for practice at your home range distance. When you're having an 'on' day is a great time to adjust the sights, not when things go sideways. Your pistol should be sighted in such that when you just know you shot a 10, the dang hole is dead centre, no question. Start clicking in any direction and you're as good as shooting holes in your boat, your confidence will leak away.
The part which would bother me shooting at a shorter distance would be the size of the target if using the same target designed for 10m. I firmly believe you should attempt to make your practice/training as close to a match as you can given what you can control.
Things you can control for training are the size of the target you shoot on and you may have some control of the distance. For this I think it is important to scale the target for the distance you are shooting at. when you are aiming all of the pieces should be the same all of the time. If your target is too big/small when you practice compared to a match this could lead to some problems. I think you figured this out. Since the black is larger than it should be at a shorter distance then you point of impact will be lower assuming you have the same sub-six or six hold. If you hold center of mass then it would not matter. I would think in your case you should have needed to make some sight adjustment down for the match.
Things you can control for training are the size of the target you shoot on and you may have some control of the distance. For this I think it is important to scale the target for the distance you are shooting at. when you are aiming all of the pieces should be the same all of the time. If your target is too big/small when you practice compared to a match this could lead to some problems. I think you figured this out. Since the black is larger than it should be at a shorter distance then you point of impact will be lower assuming you have the same sub-six or six hold. If you hold center of mass then it would not matter. I would think in your case you should have needed to make some sight adjustment down for the match.
Same here Rover. That my group was low I thought meant I would be pretty close to dead on at 10M since I assumed pellet was still rising.Rover wrote:I frequently train at shorter distances. I'm only concerned with group size not score.
But the point made about the visual clues and size of black, though fuzzy since Im concentrating on front sight, is valid. I use an appropriately scaled down target with a SCATT device, but can't stand shooting into printer paper. Is there some one selling 8M targets? Heard a rumor....
But anyway, on good days my hold is just as good with the scaled down target. Since the bull is so fuzzy, I wear glasses adjusted for near focus, that I don't think a non-scaled bull is a huge factor.
So what about getting back into the zone during a match? Any tips? The thought that I could have been squeezing is valid, I'll remember that one. I wasn't talking my way through the shot process on live shots, just the dry fire shots. And I reall think I was concentrating on just the shot at hand. I wasn't keeping score, well, other than I'm noticing the huge number of 8s...
Getting into the zone again? I just don't know.
I shot a pretty decent match (for me) yesterday. My shoulder was really bothering me so I had a hefty jolt of Jameson's at the start. I was coaching a new shooter and chatting with some of the other guys; not really paying a lot of attention. I made a one click V and one H and used two brands of pellets. Maybe you just have to concentrate hard on one shot at a time not a whole match.
Go figure.
I shot a pretty decent match (for me) yesterday. My shoulder was really bothering me so I had a hefty jolt of Jameson's at the start. I was coaching a new shooter and chatting with some of the other guys; not really paying a lot of attention. I made a one click V and one H and used two brands of pellets. Maybe you just have to concentrate hard on one shot at a time not a whole match.
Go figure.