Hi everyone,
I've shot throughout college and so I have experience with 10m AP, 50m FP, and the 25m standard pistol events.
I'll be graduating, though, and want to get into NRA bullseye since I think it'll be the most common competition I'll run across.
My main limitations, though, are that I'll be fairly poor for the foreseeable future. I know there is a general sentiment of "buy once, cry once" but that's honestly not possible for me right now.
The most I could really invest on a gun is ~$1000. Maybe up to $1500, depending on some other circumstances.
But, I was wondering, for this budget, where would I get the most value for investment?
I'm planning on starting out shooting .22 in the gallery match course for the foreseeable future. Ideally I'd also like to get into the full 2700 course but I realize that will require a reloading setup as well.
One route I'm thinking of going down is getting a cheap 1911, getting a trigger job done and then getting the Marvel Conversion. A few questions i have, though, are:
1) How accurate is the Marvel versus a dedicated .22 gun like the Ruger MKIII, S&W M41, and (on the higher end) the pardini SP?
2) How important is the lower receiver for .22 shooting? Does anyone have any suggestions for a frame for this? For example, would a Rock Island suffice?
An alternative is to just get a dedicated .22 gun. In this range, I'm thinking about the S&W M41 or the Ruger MKIII. I've shot the S&W with my college team for years and, quite frankly, I detest it. The trigger is just awful and it's picky with ammunition. The questions I have, though, are:
1) How far would each of these carry me? Would I come up against their limitations very quickly?
2) I haven't shot the ruger much, just one match (although, it did get me a PB). I know there are a plethora of aftermarket parts/customization but what would be the most essential to get? Is there a way to make the trigger a crisper break?
3) I'm also confused as to the different MKIII models around. Which would be best for bullseye shooting?
4) Are there any other guns in my price range that might be good and worth considering? Unfortunately, I live in MA and so not all of them might be legal here.
I realize that a lot of the questions I have are incredibly naive. I just don't have much experience in BE shooting but am very interested.
Many thanks in advance,
vHoff
College grad with questions
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gulliver62
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:33 pm
- Location: Georgia
To try and answer some of your questions.
Marvel - the Marvel will carry you pretty much as far as you want to go. My shooting partner made the Mayleigh Cup shootoff with one in 2011.
The importance of the lower is in the trigger. You might wind up replacing the entire hammer, trigger, sear etc if you go with a really low end model. You might consider a Springfield Range Officer. They are getting a lot of good press and could probably get you started with just a trigger job. Since you are used to iron sights that and a Marvel would get you started. I don't think I would go too cheap on the 1911. Sights, barrel fitting and a trigger job which includes parts may push you over what you would spend on a little better one.
Dedicated 22
I cannot speak to the Ruger.
The 41 trigger is something that requires someone who knows what they are doing. I have one (and just sold another) that have excellent triggers. That said, I like them better with a Clark or Buly barrel which adds cost and that is for a dot. A 41 will carry you as far as your skills will take you.
Consider an older High Standard also. You might like the trigger better and again since you are shooting iron sights you can save some $$. I think you could get into a HS for $600 or so if you wanted to.
Marvel - the Marvel will carry you pretty much as far as you want to go. My shooting partner made the Mayleigh Cup shootoff with one in 2011.
The importance of the lower is in the trigger. You might wind up replacing the entire hammer, trigger, sear etc if you go with a really low end model. You might consider a Springfield Range Officer. They are getting a lot of good press and could probably get you started with just a trigger job. Since you are used to iron sights that and a Marvel would get you started. I don't think I would go too cheap on the 1911. Sights, barrel fitting and a trigger job which includes parts may push you over what you would spend on a little better one.
Dedicated 22
I cannot speak to the Ruger.
The 41 trigger is something that requires someone who knows what they are doing. I have one (and just sold another) that have excellent triggers. That said, I like them better with a Clark or Buly barrel which adds cost and that is for a dot. A 41 will carry you as far as your skills will take you.
Consider an older High Standard also. You might like the trigger better and again since you are shooting iron sights you can save some $$. I think you could get into a HS for $600 or so if you wanted to.
The Marvels are really nice, but if you have a breakdown you are out of ALL competition. There is lots of shooting for a .22 by itself.
I wouldn't try to have a gun built; you are too ignorant (sorry) of the process. Instead, snoop around and buy a used .45 wad gun from some local guy. There are always some available and by asking around you can get a good handle on things.
If you want cheap, buy a Ruger .22 with a trigger job.
As an aside: When I was getting my butt kicked at Camp Perry, I went to commercial row and bought a match air pistol to train with. It was the best money I ever spent (read fun), and you can shoot it in REAL matches.
I wouldn't try to have a gun built; you are too ignorant (sorry) of the process. Instead, snoop around and buy a used .45 wad gun from some local guy. There are always some available and by asking around you can get a good handle on things.
If you want cheap, buy a Ruger .22 with a trigger job.
As an aside: When I was getting my butt kicked at Camp Perry, I went to commercial row and bought a match air pistol to train with. It was the best money I ever spent (read fun), and you can shoot it in REAL matches.
The Marvel conversion units are reputed to deliver outstanding accuracy. The weak link is the frame and trigger. If I were going with this approach, I'd buy a Caspian frame, Marvel upper, and get a good BE gunsmith to set it up as a dedicated .22 pistol. Come to think of it, maybe I should do that.
Rugers are a pig to disassemble. They shoot OK, but a Volquartsen trigger is highly recommended. Or send the thing to Clark Custom Guns for a new trigger and trigger job.
I'd be looking for an older High Standard, older Model 41, or an Izh-35M.
Rugers are a pig to disassemble. They shoot OK, but a Volquartsen trigger is highly recommended. Or send the thing to Clark Custom Guns for a new trigger and trigger job.
I'd be looking for an older High Standard, older Model 41, or an Izh-35M.
Like you, I shot on a collegiate team, though that was almost 20 years ago, now. I shot a Ruger MkII. About 6 years later, sight unseen, I bought an IZH-35M. Then, 6 years later, I went with a Walther GSP Expert in .22 and .32. I went through multiple 5 year gaps in competitive shooting, which I regret, but life intervenes.
Don't discount International shooting. It's out there. But you are correct, there's a whole lot more Bullseye being shot each week in the US than ISSF events.
If I were in your shoes, I would certainly go with the Marvel conversion. I also agree that you should put the word out in a local club that you're looking for a well used wad gun. As long as the trigger is good, it will last you to the end of your shooting career. A used wad gun may need the slide tightened, etc, but that can be done later.
If you can't find a used wad gun, then I would go for the Caspian frame and send it out to a gunsmith. It might be cheaper to find a Springfield mil-spec 1911, and just get a trigger job, depending on what's available in your area. Then you could get the top end accurized later.
I, like many others, prefer Euro guns, mostly for the adjustability. It really makes a difference in the ease of use. But in Bullseye, you are limited by the requirement for a .45, of which there are only a few viable platforms. So you might as well master the 1911. The sooner you do that, the better off you'll be.
Although excellent pistols, I would not recommend the Ruger because the rearward motion of the bolt causes the gun to rise more than other platforms. If you already had one, or access to one, then that's another story. You could just shoot it for a few years until you had the cash to upgrade. But if you're buying a new gun, you're better off spending the $450 on a Marvel conversion than a similar amount of money on a Ruger. Smith model 41s are also excellent pistols, but for that amount of money, might as well get a Benelli MP-95.
Don't stop shooting air pistol. Get a Daisy 717 and keep at it, even if you have to shoot in your garage.
One other piece of advice: when I first started shooting centerfire, a bunch of guys kept telling me to get a Dillon Square Deal B. I didn't listen, because the price was just a little more than I wanted to pay. About 10 years later, I finally got one. Man, those guys were right. They just work, and work well. In the meantime, don't sweat it. Get into a club and shoot rimfire. You can just shooting the rimfire portion of the 2700. I actually shoot the whole match with my .22 when I'm too busy to reload, with only the rimfire portion for score.
Good luck!
-John
Don't discount International shooting. It's out there. But you are correct, there's a whole lot more Bullseye being shot each week in the US than ISSF events.
If I were in your shoes, I would certainly go with the Marvel conversion. I also agree that you should put the word out in a local club that you're looking for a well used wad gun. As long as the trigger is good, it will last you to the end of your shooting career. A used wad gun may need the slide tightened, etc, but that can be done later.
If you can't find a used wad gun, then I would go for the Caspian frame and send it out to a gunsmith. It might be cheaper to find a Springfield mil-spec 1911, and just get a trigger job, depending on what's available in your area. Then you could get the top end accurized later.
I, like many others, prefer Euro guns, mostly for the adjustability. It really makes a difference in the ease of use. But in Bullseye, you are limited by the requirement for a .45, of which there are only a few viable platforms. So you might as well master the 1911. The sooner you do that, the better off you'll be.
Although excellent pistols, I would not recommend the Ruger because the rearward motion of the bolt causes the gun to rise more than other platforms. If you already had one, or access to one, then that's another story. You could just shoot it for a few years until you had the cash to upgrade. But if you're buying a new gun, you're better off spending the $450 on a Marvel conversion than a similar amount of money on a Ruger. Smith model 41s are also excellent pistols, but for that amount of money, might as well get a Benelli MP-95.
Don't stop shooting air pistol. Get a Daisy 717 and keep at it, even if you have to shoot in your garage.
One other piece of advice: when I first started shooting centerfire, a bunch of guys kept telling me to get a Dillon Square Deal B. I didn't listen, because the price was just a little more than I wanted to pay. About 10 years later, I finally got one. Man, those guys were right. They just work, and work well. In the meantime, don't sweat it. Get into a club and shoot rimfire. You can just shooting the rimfire portion of the 2700. I actually shoot the whole match with my .22 when I'm too busy to reload, with only the rimfire portion for score.
Good luck!
-John
Thank you for all of your advice.
It seems that I will try to go down the dedicated .22 road, probably as a 1911 with the Marvel conversion.
The significant problem, though, is that I live in MA so a lot of the good 1911s are not legal.
Specifically, the ones that are allowed are:
Rock Island
Remington
Para
I think there are others but I will have to double check the list.
Are any of these viable starting guns?
It seems that I will try to go down the dedicated .22 road, probably as a 1911 with the Marvel conversion.
The significant problem, though, is that I live in MA so a lot of the good 1911s are not legal.
Specifically, the ones that are allowed are:
Rock Island
Remington
Para
I think there are others but I will have to double check the list.
Are any of these viable starting guns?
Perusing the Massachusetts Handgun Compliance List, there are a number of quality 1911s on it, but unfortunately no budget guns.
I would go with a S&W, Sig, or Ruger 1911 over the Armscor or Remington. Perhaps the Para Ordnance would be a good choice. The ones I've seen are of reasonable quality. I noticed that the Strayer Voight is on the list, but those are expensive, high end guns.
I have no idea how Massachusetts law works, but if it's possible, still poke around local clubs for a member selling an old wad gun. That's your best bet.
-John
I would go with a S&W, Sig, or Ruger 1911 over the Armscor or Remington. Perhaps the Para Ordnance would be a good choice. The ones I've seen are of reasonable quality. I noticed that the Strayer Voight is on the list, but those are expensive, high end guns.
I have no idea how Massachusetts law works, but if it's possible, still poke around local clubs for a member selling an old wad gun. That's your best bet.
-John
Frame for a marvel
I took a used Springfield 1911 that I bought for good price. Changed out the trigger and other internal bits with Cylinder and Slide drop in components. I was very pleased. Put a marvel unit one on it and it shoots great. Pistol, cyclinder and slide drop in components, marvel unit 1, couple of extra mags and a second hand ultra dot ran me about 1000. Very accurate and I did it myself.