Dears,
Hope all is well at your end.
I am junior in shooting (10M Air Pistol) , I bought recently LP10 Styer, I added some stock in the Grip (Morini stock), and the question is:
What exactly from my hand should be touching the Grip?
The parts of my hand which is touch to the grip as following:
1- Fingers (Middle - ring - pinky).
2- Thumb.
3- Index finger touch the trigger.
4- Transverse lines across the wrist (it means the hand edge) note: only half of the line in my hand is touching the Grip.
Please note that the palm of my hand has not touch the grip.
So kindly I need the best practices for how to catch correctly the grip because I do not want to add more stock for something maybe comfort me but will be not a professional way.
Thank you all and sorry for the long post.
Which parts in the hand should be touching the Grip?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
-
ModestoPete
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:36 pm
- Location: Northern California
Grip Modification
Here are 2 links which explain why and how to make modifications to your pistol grip.
http://www.usashooting.org/library/Inst ... g_2009.pdf
http://www.usashooting.org/library/Inst ... t_2009.pdf
I hope this helps.
http://www.usashooting.org/library/Inst ... g_2009.pdf
http://www.usashooting.org/library/Inst ... t_2009.pdf
I hope this helps.
The web between your thumb and trigger finger should be high up in the grip with your lower fingers wrapped around the grip.
Most of the pressure is between the middle finger joints of your middle and ring finger and the palm of your hand. The little finger should be comfortable and not crushed against the palm shelf, and had little grip pressure.
The lower section of your palm should be a good fit to the grip with full contact and no hollow or hole.
The finger tips should have little or no contact on the grip.
The thumb rest is exactly that a rest, the thumb should only just touch and not apply any real pressure on the grip.
Your trigger finger shold be clear of the grip for its full length for the entire trigger movement.
Trigger pad position will depend on shooting style, trigger weight and type of pistol. For Free and Air, in the centre of the pad. Centrefire, Service or double action, trigger into the first joint.
Most of the pressure is between the middle finger joints of your middle and ring finger and the palm of your hand. The little finger should be comfortable and not crushed against the palm shelf, and had little grip pressure.
The lower section of your palm should be a good fit to the grip with full contact and no hollow or hole.
The finger tips should have little or no contact on the grip.
The thumb rest is exactly that a rest, the thumb should only just touch and not apply any real pressure on the grip.
Your trigger finger shold be clear of the grip for its full length for the entire trigger movement.
Trigger pad position will depend on shooting style, trigger weight and type of pistol. For Free and Air, in the centre of the pad. Centrefire, Service or double action, trigger into the first joint.
A good fitting grip has to serve three important functions:
1) Accurate support for the pistol: The support for the pistol should be straight front to back, with no sideways pressure. That means good solid CONSISTENT contact at the front & rear of the grip. The middle portion of the 2nd & 3rd fingers in front, and the heel of the hand in the back should provide almost all of the support for the pistol. You don't want your thumb or finger tips applying pressure to the grip, and I think puttying the palm side for a tight fit is also a mistake. It may feel comfy, but it's unnecessary, and day to day (or even start & finish of a match) variations in your hand will introduce unwanted variables.
2) Trigger access: The depth (front to back) of the grip should allow the shooter to reach the trigger in a manner that the trigger squeeze is straight to the rear, especially at the point where it fires. The grip should also be relieved around the trigger finger so that manipulating the trigger involves no contact with the side of the grip by the finger, OR the muscles in the hand that operate the finger. It's a pretty small effect, but if you watch the upper palm of your hand as you move your finger, you will see things moving inside the hand. Solid contact with the side of the pistol in that area could introduce unwanted motion. It may be small, but it's unnecessary, so why do it?
3) "Indexing": A lot of the design of a good grip is there to provide repeatability. You want your grip to be IDENTICAL every time you pick up the pistol. Any gaps that allow variations in your grip are to be avoided. For example, a lot of grips don't fit well at the top of the web between the thumb & fingers, and this means the height of the hand on the pistol can vary significantly. The fit doesn't have to be firm or tight in many areas, it just has to provide a guide so the hand achieves a consistent grip.
A couple other things to keep in mind:
1) Your hand size will vary over time, temperature, hydration level, etc. If you tweak your grip so it fits perfectly (whatever that is) one day, it can be too tight or too loose another day. Most of the time, a little loose is OK, but too tight (like in a long free pistol match) can be a problem.
2) VERY subtle changes to the size & shape can make a BIG difference in the feel. Go slow, or be prepared to putty things back up that you attacked with a grinder.
3) A lot of things about a grip, like the angle, are a very personal thing. For example, I can't shoot a steeply angled grip without elbow pain. Vendors vary considerably in this area, and you have to find what works best for YOU. Copying the grip of a good shooter is a waste of time unless you've shot the pistol enough to know that it works well for you. Likewise, buying a grip from one of the big name vendors doesn't mean it's going to be great right out of the box. It's quite possible it will be all wrong for you. That's why it's good to try the grips on the pistols of fellow shooters to see what the differences are. I've got various grips from Morini, Nill, & Rink on a wide range of pistols. They all required tweaking, and some are just unusable, mostly because of the angle. Be warned that the sizing between vendors also varies a lot. Walther will tell you that their sizing is a full "grade" different from what Hammerli uses.
1) Accurate support for the pistol: The support for the pistol should be straight front to back, with no sideways pressure. That means good solid CONSISTENT contact at the front & rear of the grip. The middle portion of the 2nd & 3rd fingers in front, and the heel of the hand in the back should provide almost all of the support for the pistol. You don't want your thumb or finger tips applying pressure to the grip, and I think puttying the palm side for a tight fit is also a mistake. It may feel comfy, but it's unnecessary, and day to day (or even start & finish of a match) variations in your hand will introduce unwanted variables.
2) Trigger access: The depth (front to back) of the grip should allow the shooter to reach the trigger in a manner that the trigger squeeze is straight to the rear, especially at the point where it fires. The grip should also be relieved around the trigger finger so that manipulating the trigger involves no contact with the side of the grip by the finger, OR the muscles in the hand that operate the finger. It's a pretty small effect, but if you watch the upper palm of your hand as you move your finger, you will see things moving inside the hand. Solid contact with the side of the pistol in that area could introduce unwanted motion. It may be small, but it's unnecessary, so why do it?
3) "Indexing": A lot of the design of a good grip is there to provide repeatability. You want your grip to be IDENTICAL every time you pick up the pistol. Any gaps that allow variations in your grip are to be avoided. For example, a lot of grips don't fit well at the top of the web between the thumb & fingers, and this means the height of the hand on the pistol can vary significantly. The fit doesn't have to be firm or tight in many areas, it just has to provide a guide so the hand achieves a consistent grip.
A couple other things to keep in mind:
1) Your hand size will vary over time, temperature, hydration level, etc. If you tweak your grip so it fits perfectly (whatever that is) one day, it can be too tight or too loose another day. Most of the time, a little loose is OK, but too tight (like in a long free pistol match) can be a problem.
2) VERY subtle changes to the size & shape can make a BIG difference in the feel. Go slow, or be prepared to putty things back up that you attacked with a grinder.
3) A lot of things about a grip, like the angle, are a very personal thing. For example, I can't shoot a steeply angled grip without elbow pain. Vendors vary considerably in this area, and you have to find what works best for YOU. Copying the grip of a good shooter is a waste of time unless you've shot the pistol enough to know that it works well for you. Likewise, buying a grip from one of the big name vendors doesn't mean it's going to be great right out of the box. It's quite possible it will be all wrong for you. That's why it's good to try the grips on the pistols of fellow shooters to see what the differences are. I've got various grips from Morini, Nill, & Rink on a wide range of pistols. They all required tweaking, and some are just unusable, mostly because of the angle. Be warned that the sizing between vendors also varies a lot. Walther will tell you that their sizing is a full "grade" different from what Hammerli uses.
Yes, ISSF centrefire went down to 1000g but a lot of other centrefire matchs are still at 1360g (Service, Action, Police) or 3lb 3oz (PPC).David M wrote: Centrefire, Service or double action, trigger into the first joint.
Also if you are shooting a double action only revolver you have better control with the finger in at the first jiont.
Interestingly , I tried ISSF centrefire lowered to 1000g and lost some trigger/grip control because at the lower trigger weight I was holding the pistol with less grip tension and not controlling the heavier recoil.
My centrefire pistol in now about 1200g and the revolver still 1380g.
It moves in a small arc because there's nothing constraining it. It is however irrelevant. The only bit that matters is the last fraction of a mm that makes the trigger break.shadow wrote:I fully understand that the trigger finger should move the trigger straight to the rear - however, if you have your watch your shooting hand and trigger finger - without a pistol in it - the trigger finger moves in an arc not a straight line. Just try it - then jump in and comment.
Rob.
-
ModestoPete
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:36 pm
- Location: Northern California
Movement of sights
When I squeeze my grip, the front sight rises.
Which part of my grip should I work on to prevent this?
Which part of my grip should I work on to prevent this?
Re: Movement of sights
It's not that simple. Sounds more like the whole grip may be a loose fit, but its impossible to say without seeing. Post up some pictures of you shooting the gun, focussed on the grip and we might be able give some suggestions.ModestoPete wrote:When I squeeze my grip, the front sight rises.
Which part of my grip should I work on to prevent this?
Rob.
I used this reference http://www.tenrings.co.uk/Essentials%20 ... 20grip.pdf
Dave
Dave
Thank you
Thank you so so much for all my friends, you are really added value.
Thank you again for your usual support.
Thank you again for your usual support.
-
ModestoPete
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:36 pm
- Location: Northern California
Thanks You
Rob, I have worked on my grip and I believe that you were correct that it was too loose.
It now fits like a glove and there is no movement when tightening or loosening the grip.
My only concern is that it is still cool weather here. What will happen when I have to shoot in hot weather. Will my hand swell so much that the grip won't fit?
It now fits like a glove and there is no movement when tightening or loosening the grip.
My only concern is that it is still cool weather here. What will happen when I have to shoot in hot weather. Will my hand swell so much that the grip won't fit?
Re: Thanks You
Your hand will swell in hot weather, but not too much. Equally your hands are likely to be fatter early morning than in the evening, and it will change depending on your state of hydration. Any changes though should be more than amply accommodated for by dropping the palm shelf slightly.ModestoPete wrote:Rob, I have worked on my grip and I believe that you were correct that it was too loose.
It now fits like a glove and there is no movement when tightening or loosening the grip.
My only concern is that it is still cool weather here. What will happen when I have to shoot in hot weather. Will my hand swell so much that the grip won't fit?
Rob.