Safety flags - new rules

[Greg Derr]

I may be covering old ground but does the thing have to protrude from both ends? In the US, just in the chambers is the norm.

[David Levene]

I may be covering old ground but does the thing have to protrude from both ends? In the US, just in the chambers is the norm.

Part of 6.2.2.2:-

"To demonstrate that air rifles and air pistols are unloaded, the safety flag must be long enough to extend through the full length of the barrel."

[brakarzac]

In any event remember that safety flags are not checked or required at EC under the ISSF rules.

So when and where do we use the flags if they are not required at EC?

So what is the real purpose of the flags then???

As I have said in the past, nothing beats an RO inspecting the firearm then the shooter discharging on an empty chamber down range before packing away!!!

Cheers
Brad

[brakarzac]

What about a cleaning rod with a coloured mop ? Orange or Lime Green...

Hi David,

Sounds good, but where to buy a coloured mop and will Spencer approve this option for Australian events?

As I still dont like the idea of shoving trimmer line up the barrel of my pistol!!! and it also involves in my opinion, unsafe handling practices to feed the trimmer line into the barrel!!!

Cheers
Brad

[Rover]

Lots of fabulous solutions for a stupid idea!

[brakarzac]

Lots of fabulous solutions for a stupid idea!

I second that!

Cheers
Brad

[brakarzac]

Will the Anschutz Safety Look plug be allowed for Air Pistols under the new regulations?

See item below:

http://www.potfire.com.au/accessories/p ... -look.html

Cheers
Brad

[David Levene]

Will the Anschutz Safety Look plug be allowed for Air Pistols under the new regulations?

See item below:

http://www.potfire.com.au/accessories/p ... -look.html

Cheers
Brad

Certainly does NOT comply with the ISSF rules for airguns.

[David Levene]

So when and where do we use the flags if they are not required at EC?

6.2.2.2 (part)
Safety flags must be inserted in all rifles, pistols and semiautomatic shotguns at all times other than during authorized dry firing or live firing on a firing point. The purpose of safety flags is to visibly demonstrate when gun actions are open and guns are unloaded. To demonstrate that air rifles and air pistols are unloaded, the safety flag must be long enough to extend through the full length of the barrel.

6.2.2.4
When placing a gun down to leave the firing point or when firing is complete, all guns must be unloaded with actions (bolt or locking mechanism) open and safety flags inserted. Before leaving a firing point, the athlete must ascertain and the Range Officer must verify that there is no cartridge or pellet in the gun’s chamber, barrel or magazine and a safety flag is inserted.

6.2.2.7
The handling of guns is not permitted and safety flags must be inserted when any personnel are forward of the firing line.

6.12.5.3 If an athlete wishes to speak with anyone else, the athlete must unload his gun and leave it in a safe condition on the firing line with the action open and a safety flag inserted. An athlete may leave the firing line only after notifying a Range Officer and without disturbing other athletes.

There is certainly an arguement to be made that 6.2.2.2 also covers EC but, if it does, then trigger testing would be impossible. I can't see any EC officer complaining if you present a gun with a safety flag inserted.

[Joakim]

There is certainly an arguement to be made that 6.2.2.2 also covers EC but, if it does, then trigger testing would be impossible. I can't see any EC officer complaining if you present a gun with a safety flag inserted.

The reasonable way to view 6.2.2.2 is that it applies to the shooter at all times on the competition premises, also when approaching EC, but not (obviously) to the EC officer trying to do his job, who must be allowed to take out the flag. This might be worded more clearly though.

Certainly EC are the ones that benefit most from this. Post-match checks are perfectly possible by just releasing air, although the safety flags admittedly speed up the checking, but EC typically don't have a safe direction to fire in, and they do need to ascertain that the gun is empty, or they will risk holes in the ceiling...

[David Levene]

There is certainly an arguement to be made that 6.2.2.2 also covers EC but, if it does, then trigger testing would be impossible. I can't see any EC officer complaining if you present a gun with a safety flag inserted.

The reasonable way to view 6.2.2.2 is that it applies to the shooter at all times on the competition premises, also when approaching EC, but not (obviously) to the EC officer trying to do his job, who must be allowed to take out the flag. This might be worded more clearly though.

I have little doubt that this is the way it will be interpreted by most officials.

[Spencer]

There is certainly an arguement to be made that 6.2.2.2 also covers EC but, if it does, then trigger testing would be impossible. I can't see any EC officer complaining if you present a gun with a safety flag inserted.

The reasonable way to view 6.2.2.2 is that it applies to the shooter at all times on the competition premises, also when approaching EC, but not (obviously) to the EC officer trying to do his job, who must be allowed to take out the flag. This might be worded more clearly though.

I have little doubt that this is the way it will be interpreted by most officials.

problem being that few (if any?) 10m guns can have the action closed with a clear barrel indicator in place - transporting a cased 10m pistol or rifle with the action open will likely lead to breakage...

and what happens if a shooter presents with an old Hammerli single or master?

[RobStubbs]

problem being that few (if any?) 10m guns can have the action closed with a clear barrel indicator in place - transporting a cased 10m pistol or rifle with the action open will likely lead to breakage...

and what happens if a shooter presents with an old Hammerli single or master?

Agreed, and common sense would suggest that once checked and cleared, the gun would be boxed 'as usual'. You can't pack away a gun with the breach open and no one has ever suggested you should, well not yet anyway ;)

Rob.

[Spencer]

... and no one has ever suggested you should, well not yet anyway ;)

Rob.

I can envisage some interesting(!) applications of "...at all times other than... etc."

[brakarzac]

Can one of our international judges please advise if these two safety flags would pass under rule 6.2.2.2

Cheers
Brad

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u56 ... 7cc8cc.jpg

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u56 ... e57e79.jpg

[David Levene]

Can one of our international judges please advise if these two safety flags would pass under rule 6.2.2.2

As far as I know the ISSF have not (yet?) issued a specification of what they would accept as a safety flag.

Barring anything they may issue in the future, I would be happy with both of those.

Purely as a matter of personal preference, I would prefer safety flags to be a brighter colour. I find yellow or light green to be much easier to see.

[Spencer]

Can one of our international judges please advise if these two safety flags would pass under rule 6.2.2.2

Cheers
Brad

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u56 ... 7cc8cc.jpg

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u56 ... e57e79.jpg

for 25m and 50m, yes. both 'visibly demonstrate when gun actions are open and guns are unloaded'