zuckerman wrote:hemmers says:
"So what? "
so what.
such a callous and vindictive statement. so what that over 900 people have died due to gunshot deaths in less than a month? try saying that statement to the families of the gunshot dead. such a high horse you sit on, anonymous and faceless. heartless. guns seem to mean more than people to you. how very sad.
your statement is a perfect example of why many people react with disdain when guns come up in a conversation.
here's the data source I quote from:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... oting.html
926 USA gunshot deaths since sandy hook
It is not a callous nor vindictive statement, although it may appear so on first glance. Your fly away comment "x gunshot deaths since Sandy Hook" trivialises and oversimplifies a whole range of serious issues.
It presents the matter as a single issue, that you simply wave a law at to fix and that all the ills of the US are simply a result of politician's refusal to pass one simple little law. It plays to the
very very worst propaganda "think of the children! Stop this happening!"
Stop
what happening?
Suicides with guns? Murders by legal firearm owners? Self defence shootings by legal CCW holders? Shootings by black-market owners? Gangland shootings? Dealing by black market dealers & smugglers?
All of the above?
Because that's not one issue. It's a plethora.
Playing an emotive "oh x deaths" is a totally worthless statement with no merit unless you are a gun control advocate trying to whip up a senseless media orgy (and a tactic which works surprisingly well).
If 925 of 926 gunshot deaths are suicides, then getting rid of assault rifles, or even assault rifles and pistols is not going to stop people laying hands on rifles or shotguns. Banning all guns would not prevent people hanging themselves, or slitting their wrists, or overdosing (is it any surprise some of the highest suicide rates are amongst doctors and vets? They have access to drugs and know how to painlessly end life as well as they do how to save it).
So there have been 926 gunshot deaths since Sandy Hook. That's very sad, but that statement has no merit -
there is nothing you can do about it.
Now, if you can tell me that there have been x deaths by legal owners, then we can look at common factors and whether there could be a legislative solution. If you can tell me x deaths in Chicago by gangs members using black market guns then Chicago PD can look at their guns and gangs operation and whether it needs more resource, reform, restructuring, or whatnot, and Border Force can be looking at how effectively they are stopping guns slipping into the country for black market sale.
If you can tell me that there have been x gun-suicides, then we can look at possible legislative reform in terms of mental health checks on firearm purchases, but more important would be accessible mental healthcare.
The two largest mental health clinics in the US are in Chicago and LA prisons. If you don't have the right type of medical insurance or personal wealth, the best way to get mental health treatment in the US is to get yourself convicted (or at the very least charged) for something to get a referral to a criminal psychiatric unit. Which is completely retarded when you consider it, because you're closing the stable door after the horse has bolted - the patient has already committed or been alleged to commit a crime. Surely better to catch people with depression or mental illness beforehand with accessible mental health facilities & treatment.
So I say again. So what? It's very sad, but so what? What do you want the government to do about it? What
can be done about it? The answer is
nothing. "Oh, x gun deaths". It's a worthless and offensive statement that trivialises the whole matter and shows that you
can't be bothered to form complex arguments.
"Oh, loads of deaths. We need new laws and anyone who says otherwise is callous and vindictive."
Give some real numbers. Legal/Illegal/Suicide/Defence.
That gives you enough information to know whether the problem lies with white market/black market/suicides (the latter not fundamentally even being a gun problem. Passing gun control laws to stop suicides is straight up idiotic).
For some context,
here's a source of data on methods of suicide. In the US in 2006, 50.7% of all suicides were by firearms - some 16883 deaths, followed by suffocation/hanging on 7491 (22.5%) and then drugs/poisoning.
If you click on the tab for England & Wales, much the same order exists except firearms are way down the list, but otherwise it's hanging, poisoning, drowning or jumping from high places.
So when you hear gun control advocates talk about x thousand gun deaths a year, strike 16,000-17000 off that figure, and then you've got actual crimes or accidents (it's probably been a bit higher through the recession as well, with people losing jobs or their businesses folding).
Suicide is a totally different issue.
