Some help with my position. Please

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:57 am

I have been having a bit of a problem with my position since I have changed to a new rifle (1813). I just can't seem to get comfortable and more importantly can't seem to find a stable position. When I relax my left arm bicep (sling arm) the rifle goes to the left feels like I am rolling to the left.
I have uploaded some photos, if anyone can spot anything wrong please let me know.
My shooting is getting worse which is very frustrating.

For reference the shooting mat is at 15deg's to the range.

Thank you in advance for any feedback and help.

Henry

Pat McCoy · Post by **Pat McCoy** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:15 pm

It's hard to tell from photos, but it looks to me like you need to lengthen the sling a couple notches, extend the handstop about an inch, and move your left elbow about 1" or little more to the left.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:18 pm

Your left elbow is too close to the rifle. Ideally your left arm should be straight; i.e hand, elbow, and shoulder are in the same plane. This way the weight of the rifle bears stright down, against the sling.

If the elbow is out of line, the weight of the rifle makes the arm tip over.

yana · Post by **yana** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:22 pm

Dunno wether its correct, but I always learnt to put the hand the other way around the belt.
Besides that, yr general position looks good, back, shoulders, legs..

How do you build up yr stance? There are 'tricks 'for grosse correct elbow position. Yr left elbow dóes look quite straight up.
Hows yr triggerhand doing by the way? Triggerfinger doesnt seem to be well in line with trigger

Cumbrian · Post by **Cumbrian** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:56 pm

This is purely additional and secondary to the replies from more experienced shooters than I, but I just wonder what your previous cheek piece was like? I find the 1813 cheek piece too bulbous, so that it does not fit under my cheek bone and my whole cheek tends to slide off it i.e. to the left, as you apparently are doing. Depends on one's physiognomy, of course.

KennyB · Post by **KennyB** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:18 pm

I'd second Pat's suggestion of slightly lengthening the sling and moving the handstop forward - together with a small shortening of the butt.

It could well be that you are tall with long arms - but reducing the pressure of the butt in the shoulder might allow the rifle to roll slightly more to the right and balance better.

Ken.

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:44 pm

KennyB wrote:I'd second Pat's suggestion of slightly lengthening the sling and moving the handstop forward - together with a small shortening of the butt.

You may want to consider some sight risers, too, as your head seems to be tilting down and to the right. I really dislike that style cheekpiece and found a piece of moleskin or the black Anschutz cover essential for maintaining a consistent head position.

Jason

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:10 pm

Thanks for all the replies.
Before the photos were taken I did lengthen the sling by 2 holes. It did feel a little more stable but I didn't go more because I thought I was then getting too low. I see what you mean by my elbow not being in line I will work on that.
The cheek piece is not the standard 1813 item the previous owner has made a new one with a dish cut into it. I guess this was to help over come the problems mentioned above.

bpscCheney · Post by **bpscCheney** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:45 pm

What I personally would do is slide the butt plate a bit to the right there by taking the rifle closer to you eliminating the need to lean over the rifle. Another thing I would do, and this is just my personal opinion, is lengthen the length of pull a couple of centimeters because to me it seems that your right shoulder has to scrunch to meet the butt plate which will lead to muscle twitches. I also concur on the lengthening of your sling, I switched from a higher prone to a lower prone and saw my scores jump from 92s and 93s to 99s and 98s. I still have yet to reach that illusive 100 though. ;)

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:32 am

bpscCheney wrote:What I personally would do is slide the butt plate a bit to the right there by taking the rifle closer to you eliminating the need to lean over the rifle. Another thing I would do, and this is just my personal opinion, is lengthen the length of pull a couple of centimeters because to me it seems that your right shoulder has to scrunch to meet the butt plate which will lead to muscle twitches. I also concur on the lengthening of your sling, I switched from a higher prone to a lower prone and saw my scores jump from 92s and 93s to 99s and 98s. I still have yet to reach that illusive 100 though. ;)

I only have the standard 1813 butt plate so a bit limited on movement, up or down, in and out are my limits.
I do feel very scrunched, what do you mean by the length of pull??

bpscCheney · Post by **bpscCheney** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:25 am

Length of pull is the distance from the pistol grip to the end of the butt plate. For me my length of pull is set up for the distance from my hand to my elbow joint, which is a fairly universal measurement for that. Not having to bring your shoulder to the rifle will greatly aid in being able to relax. :)

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:00 am

HWN1011 wrote:
I only have the standard 1813 butt plate so a bit limited on movement, up or down, in and out are my limits.
I do feel very scrunched, what do you mean by the length of pull??

The 1813 butt has more capability than you think.

Unscrew the plate from the rifle; loosen the big thumbscrew that lets it slide up and down, until the plate comes away. You will now see that the curved aluminium baseplate, is held onto the rifle (actually the steel carrier that screws in and out) by screws. If you loosen these, the aluminium baseplate can be slid left or right, and twisted. This means you can alter how the plate fits in your shoulder, without twisting the rifle; or vice versa you can move the gun in relation to the butt.

bpscCheney · Post by **bpscCheney** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:50 pm

Also if my old 1413 can adjust left and right I would most definitely assume that your 1813 can adjust such as well.

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:47 pm

Tim S wrote:
HWN1011 wrote:
I only have the standard 1813 butt plate so a bit limited on movement, up or down, in and out are my limits.
I do feel very scrunched, what do you mean by the length of pull??
The 1813 butt has more capability than you think.

Unscrew the plate from the rifle; loosen the big thumbscrew that lets it slide up and down, until the plate comes away. You will now see that the curved aluminium baseplate, is held onto the rifle (actually the steel carrier that screws in and out) by screws. If you loosen these, the aluminium baseplate can be slid left or right, and twisted. This means you can alter how the plate fits in your shoulder, without twisting the rifle; or vice versa you can move the gun in relation to the butt.

Thanks for the heads up, not had the rifle long had no idea there was all that adjustment.

dmalstro · Post by **dmalstro** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:58 am

One item that was not mentioned was that if the rifle is placed too far onto the base of the thumb, the rifle will be able to roll to the left. if the problem continues after the previous suggestions, try moving the rifle slightly to the right on your left hand (1 -2 mm). This might help stablize the canting to the left. I also have an 1813. Good luck.

rmarsh · Post by **rmarsh** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:34 pm

Others have suggested lengthening the stock (length of pull). I noticed your right wrist is bent. That could suggest the stock is too short. You should be able to draw a straight line from your trigger finger to your elbow with no bend at the wrist. I'm certainly not a pro, but that is my observation for what it is worth......

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:17 am

Quick update.
Been out to the range this week not for long maybe 4 cards (70 rounds) on Tuesday.
As many of you advised I lowered my position, forward 1inch with hand stop and 2 holes out on the sling. Position felt a little better for first session. Went another 2 holes out on sling and position was stable and much improved but scores the same (bad) 89. Maybe a little too low now but will check that next week.
By now having a stable position and not worrying about that I started to notice so many problems I have picked up over the last few months when I have been struggling.
I did have a little tension in my rifle arm (Left) which was obviously due to the unstable position. But the biggest thing I noticed was tension in the Right arm I think this had started due to trying to keep a stable position. This intern affected smoothness on the trigger. As soon as I started to relax right arm and become smoother on the trigger scores came up 94, 95, 96.
I am now much happier and on the way back to were I should be still lots to fix but getting there much happier now so thank you for all your comments. Just goes to show how critical a stable position is and how it affects other things.

tiny · Post by **tiny** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:43 pm

you should also adjust one thing at a time and let that settle once you are happy then carry on sometimes adjusting to many things at once will have a negative effect

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Some help with my position. Please

Some help with my position. Please

position

Update 13-12-12