Rifle Actions

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:14 pm

First post for me but loving the site been lurking for a while.

Are there any really good Small Bore Rifle Actions out there that are not from the mainstream companies? Companies other than Anschutz, Walther, FWB, Bleiker etc.

I have very often found products handmade by smaller companies can offer the best quality. I am not really just talking about shooting as such. For example Border Bows in Scotland make the best Archery limbs I have ever had the pleasure of using. They have such a love and dedication for the sport and they are not purely focused on profit. Because of this there products are the best you can buy.

So my question is are there any smaller non mainstream companies out there building .22 Small Bore Rifle Actions better than the big boys?

I have done some searching and all I have come up with is Hall Mfg. They seem to make a very nice action but are there others hidden away??
Also if anyone has and experience of the Hall Action please post your thoughts!!

I am looking to build a Target Rifle for Prone and 3P.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:44 pm

There are more out there, but almost all are in the US, and most are intended for Benchrest Competition. Those that come to mind are the Falcon (Baityscustom.com) Swindlehurst (kelby.com), the Turbo (out of production), the Time Precision, the 10X (10xcustomrifles.com), there are one or two others. In terms of design, I don't think these differ to greatly from factory offerings. All have twin-lug rear-locking bolts; the Turbo is said to be a re-working of the Winchester 52, and I think the Myers is a copy of the Remington 40X. The Falcon does have a 6o'clock (bottom striking) firing pin). However the finish and manufacturing tolerances are superior. The downside is that most are intended to take a BR trigger like the Jewel, so if you want a two-stage if may be difficult.

US Olympic shooter Eric Uptagrafft makes a very different action; front locking, 6o'clock firing pin, short bolt. However he's too busy shooting the two he made to make more.

The Americans do have a history of this, I think due to their geography. Many local gunsmiths have tried to build a better mousetrap. Actions from the '40s and '50s like the Benny and Morgan are still in use.

There isn't much of a tradition of independed action makers in europe, as everything was normally made in house, but I think the Czech shooter Vaclav Harman makes one that shares a bedding footprint as the Anschutz 2013.

hansi · Post by **hansi** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:59 pm

You might try asking Keppeler.They will sell actions only but dont have 22lr listed.Maybe they would do special order.

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:20 pm

Thanks for the great replies. Very useful lots of info to get started with.

Tim good point on the trigger you are correct I would want to use a 2 stage trigger so that rules out most of the US actions by the looks of it.
Good call on Vaclav Haman that looks like a nice option.

hansi. Thank you another good link I am into full bore also so that's a great link for that as well. I will email them see if they do a .22lr action.

Thanks

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:37 pm

Don't mention it.

Keppeller did make a .22 rifle a few years ago, but rumour has it they didn't make many. Jonas Edman of Sweden used one to win Gold in the 50m Prone at the Sydney Olympics. The receiver looked like Keppeller's 300m jobs, but the bolt looked an awful lot like an Anschutz M54 (I do wonder if it was).

The standard factory actions are pretty good. Have you looked at having one rebarreled? Many successful shooters have an Anschutz with a Border/Lilja/Shilen etc barrel. If I was to replace my 1813, I'd look hard at the Walther KK300. The receiver is longer, so the barrel gets more support, and the trigger is said to be excellent.

Oh, I forgot one! The Centre 10, a British rifle from the '90s. Stainless steel action, Anschutz/Walther-esque bolt.

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:18 am

Yes I had considered having a factory action rebarreled. I am going to find out if it's possible to buy just the action from Anschutz, Walther etc. Interesting what you say about the Walther action, I can see the benefit in the longer receiver.

Do you know if Centre 10 are still around? I have done a quick search but found nothing.

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:46 am

I don't beleive that Anschutz, Walther, or FWB will sell an action on its own. I think partly they don't get that much call, and also to protect their reputation if something goes wrong, as in someone bodging a DIY barrel installation. If they sell you a barrelled action, it has been proof tested and officially accepted as safe (whether it shoots as well as you want is another matter).

The common way is to use whatever action you already have, or buy a spare (preferably with a shot-out barrel).

Centre-10 closed down many years ago; it was run by John Sims and Graham Haworth.

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:22 am

Yeah I think you are right the big name brands are not going to sell just the action. I will ask my local shop see what they say though.

TPJones · Post by **TPJones** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:01 am

I believe the 10-X is a 6 o'clock firing pin as well.

Accurifle · Post by **Accurifle** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:02 am

I recommend you to contact Mr. Vaclav Haman of Vaskent in Czech Republic.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Va%C5%A1kent/99106116021
http://www.vaskent.cz/

He is a top shooter in Czech and he himself produces smallbore rifles one of which I own.
I am not sure he sells action only but I think he is worth contacting.

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:30 pm

Thanks for the reply.
I emailed Mr Haman a few days ago and received an immediate reply. He looks to offer a very nice product and prices similar to the Anschutz, Walther, FWB which is good. His rifles also come with Lilja barrel which would have been one of my top choices.

I am just weighing up my options at the moment because I had a very interesting chat with a local engineer yesterday and being an engineer myself we may go our own route just to see what we can come up with.

Bill Burkert · Post by **Bill Burkert** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:38 pm

I have a Hall actioned rifle. Below is a summary of the prone rifle which I built this spring. It is extremely accurate. It has to be. We shoot at 50 yards, 50 meters and 100 yards. 100 yards is the acid test.

Hall action
Jewell BR trigger
Lilja barrel
BeeSting tuner

This rifle is capable of sub-.500" accuracy at 100 yards. I have two targets shot from a machine rest at 100 yards. One is .404" (center to center) and the other just over .500". These are 10 shot groups. No, I did not shoot several dozen groups and pick the best. These are the only two groups I shot with this rifle and ammo (Eley Black) at this particular tuner setting using this rest. There was a very slight breeze that day.

Mark Penrod, North Manchester, Indiana was the gunsmith. Needless to say he did a tremendous job. Mark is a rimfire benchrest competitor and works on many Hall actions. If I were to build another rifle, I would have him do it. He knows the Hall action and adds finishing touches to it to make it better than original.

I think the gunsmith is just as important as the action and barrel. Making a rimfire rifle is an art and science.

Mark provided me with pillars for the stock which I made myself. It is a wood (laminated curly maple) stock. I bedded it with Marine Tex.

I originally selected the Hall because the bolt throw is good and it easy to load. Not quite as easy as my Anschutz, but easy enough. It does not have 6:00 ignition, but judging from the results I obtained from my rifle, I am wondering how much that really matters.

I am also considering a 3P stock for this rifle but I may continue to use my Anschutz 2013/Lilja for 3P. The trouble with building a 3P rifle is one needs all the stock adjustment capabilities.

Hope this is helpful.

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:27 am

Thank Bill very interesting. Good to have some feedback on the Hall action sounds like you have a really nice setup.
I agree the gunsmith is a big part of making the best rifle. I have not used a gunsmith before always used standard off the self rifles.

Looking for a good gunsmith in the UK is also on my list things to do. So if anyone has any suggestions that would be a big help.
Only guys I know of currently are HPS but no experience of them.

Bill Burkert · Post by **Bill Burkert** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:34 am

You might talk to the owner of Border Barrels, Geoffrey Kolbe, in reference to finding a good rimfire gunsmith.

By the way, Border Barrels are super. I have a buddy here in the US who shoots a Border and when he is on, he is tough to beat. His barrel is obviously very, very accurate. He owns an anysight league record at 100 yards (average 400-36X) shot during the course of a summer. (We shoot 9 matches and use the best five matches to create an average).

It is now one of my goals to beat it. LOL

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:23 pm

Thanks Bill that's a really good point I was going to speak to Border about barrels anyway so I will ask them the question. Thanks for the feedback.

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:25 pm

TPJones wrote:I believe the 10-X is a 6 o'clock firing pin as well.

Does anyone know what the advantages of a 6 o'clock firing pin are?

sbrmike · Post by **sbrmike** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Many people have tested 6 o'clock firing pins and found huge accuracy increases. Others have tested and founf no increase.

10X rifles in DuBois, PA sells actions and has options on the actions plus will accomodate as much as they can in specialty features. They have 2-Stage and single stage triggers.

Accurifle · Post by **Accurifle** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:04 pm

I remember Eric U's own custom action has a 6 o'clock firing pin.
I guess ignition of the system starts from where powder resides. General 12 o'clock firing pin ignites from air space because the powder is on the bottom when a rifle is shot with being held horizontal.

Eric U, your comment is highly welcome.

HWN1011 · Post by **HWN1011** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:18 am

Accurifle wrote:I remember Eric U's own custom action has a 6 o'clock firing pin.
I guess ignition of the system starts from where powder resides. General 12 o'clock firing pin ignites from air space because the powder is on the bottom when a rifle is shot with being held horizontal.

Eric U, your comment is highly welcome.

Ah yes common sense engineering. The powder will be sitting at 6 o'clock like you say with possibly an air gap or at least less powder at 12 o'clock. Makes perfect sense now you mention it.

Bill Burkert · Post by **Bill Burkert** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:59 am

Regarding 6:00 vs 12:00 firing pin strike.

Again, I must mention Geoffrey Kolbe and the Border Barrels website. He did some work on 6:00 vs 12:00 ignition. I believe he measured chamber pressures.

I had some experience with shooting a particular action with 6:00 ignition, and while I won't mention the name, that action did not extract 11 of 75 shots and did not ignite 2 of 75 shots. While it had great possibilities, it was, in my opinion, a work in progress.

The best actions extract and they go bang every time and, for a position shooter, must be easy to load.

Unless you are a benchrest shooter or a top flight prone competitor, I would not get too wrapped up with where the firing pin strikes.