Sight Radius - Moving To A Longer One
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
Sight Radius - Moving To A Longer One
Looking for same "brainstorming" on sight radius. With some air and free pistols offering "options", what is the rule of thumb? Should a new (or not so good) shooter start with a short sight radius and increase it as skill level improves? Should you just start with the longest radius possible? When should you increase your sight radius?
-
ShootingSight
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 9:37 pm
- Location: Cincinnati, OH
- Contact:
You should start with the longest possible.
Shooting (aiming) is an exercise in depth of field where you are trying to juxtapose a near sight with a distant target. The closer they are to each other (ie the further the FS is from your eye), the easier it is to see both at the same time. That's why people use bloop tubes.
Focus is an inverse relationship formula, so when you are dealing with nearby objects, small changes cause big effects in focusing.
I am not aware of a single negative to using a bloop tube that would make you hesitate, other than if you shoot outdoors in gusty wind a lot, the bigger area of the barrel means the wind might push you around more, but that is usually a rifle concern, not pistol.
Shooting (aiming) is an exercise in depth of field where you are trying to juxtapose a near sight with a distant target. The closer they are to each other (ie the further the FS is from your eye), the easier it is to see both at the same time. That's why people use bloop tubes.
Focus is an inverse relationship formula, so when you are dealing with nearby objects, small changes cause big effects in focusing.
I am not aware of a single negative to using a bloop tube that would make you hesitate, other than if you shoot outdoors in gusty wind a lot, the bigger area of the barrel means the wind might push you around more, but that is usually a rifle concern, not pistol.
Last edited by ShootingSight on Sun May 20, 2012 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is more to sight radius/barrel length than just sight picture.
Having shot Free pistol and played with barrels from 10" to 14", as well as sight extensions (both front and rear) for a number of years.
A long barrel/sight will shoot a tighter group, on a calm day, if you can hold a good sight picture, your arm will fatigue sooner as will you eyes. It is harder to accept any wobble in the sight picture and requires very good trigger disipline not to grab at shots.
Good shots will be smack in the guts, but bad shots tend to fly further out.
A short barrel/sight is better in the wind, easier to hold up, less fatigue and is easier see a fair sight picture. It will not shoot so many x-ring tens but helps bring the loose wild shots in towards the centre because you usually have better trigger relaeses with a steady sight picture.
You have to find a happy medium for your own shooting style.
Having shot Free pistol and played with barrels from 10" to 14", as well as sight extensions (both front and rear) for a number of years.
A long barrel/sight will shoot a tighter group, on a calm day, if you can hold a good sight picture, your arm will fatigue sooner as will you eyes. It is harder to accept any wobble in the sight picture and requires very good trigger disipline not to grab at shots.
Good shots will be smack in the guts, but bad shots tend to fly further out.
A short barrel/sight is better in the wind, easier to hold up, less fatigue and is easier see a fair sight picture. It will not shoot so many x-ring tens but helps bring the loose wild shots in towards the centre because you usually have better trigger relaeses with a steady sight picture.
You have to find a happy medium for your own shooting style.
-
Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
I agree with what David says with one addition, keeping the gun as light as possible will help both with fatigue and a stable sight picture both indoors and out. A gun that is muzzle heavy will shorten your hold time, tire your arm out quicker and catch the wind worse than one where the weight is over your hand, but lighter over all is better for the single shot discipline. If I am doing what I am supposed to be doing, and getting the shot off quickly and smoothly, the sight radius of a particular gun is a minor issue.
Yeah, I was wondering about light weight helping sight picture too. Just this past week or so I've been doing without a 135g weight I'd made for the Pardini K10, as I try to find a more stable sight picture without the front-biased weight in place. It's a challenge, as every little flaw in my hold seems accented when I use the stock weight of 990g but at 1125g it steadies out considerably. Almost a 1-ring difference in visible hold stability. I know this is largely related to fitness and inexperience, and of course continue to work on these. And I appreciate the longer hold possible without the weight... but then again, I ought to be getting my shots off quickly, not relying on a light pistol which can allow longer holds, with the accompanying increased danger of wandering attention, eye fatigue, etc. My eye doctor tells me my tearing rate is below average, so I should blink more while shooting. And sure, that helps a little, but every blink and recovery from blink takes yet more time... Better to keep it short I think. And if the hold is only 2 to 3 seconds, extra weight might prove to be a help, not a hindrance.
-
Isabel1130
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:19 pm
- Location: Wyoming
Gerard, if the weight you put on your gun balances the gun right above your trigger finger or over your hand, it can make your hold appear to be more stable, but as the Noptel taught me, appearances can be deceiving.
If the added weight makes the gun muzzle heavy, it will generally hurt more than it helps, especially outdoors during windy conditions and later in the match when the fatigue factor kicks in.
If the added weight makes the gun muzzle heavy, it will generally hurt more than it helps, especially outdoors during windy conditions and later in the match when the fatigue factor kicks in.
I'm just going by group size in practice. Weight on = smaller groups, provided I'm feeling up for the weight. If I'm tired, then the groups spread slightly and tend to be just below where I'm intending to shoot. The appearance of less wobble directly translates into smaller groups and higher scores if I'm counting. It's not so much fun as the lighter pistol though, hence my returning to weight-less shooting for a bit to see how much steadier my workouts have made my hold. So far seeing slight improvement over a couple of months ago, the last time I shot without the weight.
As for wind... won't be a factor, as I've no intention of shooting firearms, ever. 10m AP is just fine, and there's never any wind for that discipline.
As for wind... won't be a factor, as I've no intention of shooting firearms, ever. 10m AP is just fine, and there's never any wind for that discipline.
Heres what i know: Bloop tubes can help with a couple of things. They increase your sight radius, which gives you better front sight clarity, and allows the shooter to see more movement, so they can better time their shot and shoot a more accurate group.
The first concern with bloop tubes is that they weigh down the forward end of the gun. Its imperitive to shoot with a tube that doesn't make the shooter feel that the gun is muzzle heavy. But, If a shooter needs a large tube, there are 2 things that he can do to counter-act the weight: add weigh to the back end of the rifle, or get a lighter tube. Weight on the back end of the rifle, towards the butt plate, can re-shift the balance point of the gun to its original position. A lighter tube, like a Beesting "bloop tube tuner", weighs very little in comparison with other tubes and may only cause little to no shift in balance that the shooter will recognize. Antoher thing that increases with sight radius is aperature size. The rule of thumb is .1mm increase for every 1" increase to your sight radius. This keeps the vision size of your aperature the same, when in reality its much larger than what you had on before.
As previously mentioned, bloop tubes can make ur gun wobble a littlle when wind starts to come. But I find that it actually helps a shooter. If you feel the rifle shift in one direction or another, you know exactly where the wind is coming from. At least thats my opinion
Also note that bloop tubes need to be cleaned every once in a while. People normally use a 12 quage cleaning rod with a brush attachment. You should also know that bloop tubes cause an enormous amount of fouling buid up on the crown of your rifle. I dont own a bloop tube, but if I did I would clean my crown after every practice and every match to make sure that Im shooting my rifle at its peak condition every time I get into position.
I have seen people shoot vey well (high master scores) with and without bloop tubes. I would say that in order for it to really make a difference, you need to be shooting high expert scores in NRA outdoor conventional prone.
The first concern with bloop tubes is that they weigh down the forward end of the gun. Its imperitive to shoot with a tube that doesn't make the shooter feel that the gun is muzzle heavy. But, If a shooter needs a large tube, there are 2 things that he can do to counter-act the weight: add weigh to the back end of the rifle, or get a lighter tube. Weight on the back end of the rifle, towards the butt plate, can re-shift the balance point of the gun to its original position. A lighter tube, like a Beesting "bloop tube tuner", weighs very little in comparison with other tubes and may only cause little to no shift in balance that the shooter will recognize. Antoher thing that increases with sight radius is aperature size. The rule of thumb is .1mm increase for every 1" increase to your sight radius. This keeps the vision size of your aperature the same, when in reality its much larger than what you had on before.
As previously mentioned, bloop tubes can make ur gun wobble a littlle when wind starts to come. But I find that it actually helps a shooter. If you feel the rifle shift in one direction or another, you know exactly where the wind is coming from. At least thats my opinion
Also note that bloop tubes need to be cleaned every once in a while. People normally use a 12 quage cleaning rod with a brush attachment. You should also know that bloop tubes cause an enormous amount of fouling buid up on the crown of your rifle. I dont own a bloop tube, but if I did I would clean my crown after every practice and every match to make sure that Im shooting my rifle at its peak condition every time I get into position.
I have seen people shoot vey well (high master scores) with and without bloop tubes. I would say that in order for it to really make a difference, you need to be shooting high expert scores in NRA outdoor conventional prone.