Hi all,
I'm interested in getting started in rifle but am totally clueless. The range I'm currently at is a pistol range (I'm a pistol shooter mainly) and so I can't really do free rifle but could at least practice kneeling and standing for 3p. I would like to eventually join a range with an outdoor area and get into 50m prone, though, and was wondering if the rifles for 50m prone are interchangeable with use in 3p. Is there a model which would do well in both events or do I need a special rig?
Any suggestions on what is a good rifle? I'm not really interested in buying a lower-end model, improving, and getting a higher-end one. I'd really just liek to jump in, even if it does mean saving up a bit more.
Thanks!
3p rifle vs 50m prone?
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Re: 3p rifle vs 50m prone?
Any of the current free rifles such as Anschutz, Walther, & FWB produce very good free rifles. They all have their plus and minus features and so what it boils down to is personal taste and budget. My current preference is the FWB even though you don't see many of them out there in this country they are very solid and well built rifle. The Anschutz has more parts and repair availability then the other two. However, they seem to break more then the other two, which maybe just an impression as their are more Anschutz out on the market. My recommendation is to go to some matches and see if you can try out some of the various models. Most shooters are generally willing to show off their baby's.vHoff wrote:Hi all,
I'm interested in getting started in rifle but am totally clueless. The range I'm currently at is a pistol range (I'm a pistol shooter mainly) and so I can't really do free rifle but could at least practice kneeling and standing for 3p. I would like to eventually join a range with an outdoor area and get into 50m prone, though, and was wondering if the rifles for 50m prone are interchangeable with use in 3p. Is there a model which would do well in both events or do I need a special rig?
Any suggestions on what is a good rifle? I'm not really interested in buying a lower-end model, improving, and getting a higher-end one. I'd really just liek to jump in, even if it does mean saving up a bit more.
Thanks!
vHoff,
Free rifle = 3-P rifle (thumbhole wood stock or skeleton metal stock, either with a fancy metal hook butt).
most world class shooters use one rifle for both the 60 shot prone match, and the 3x40 3-P match. Butt and cheekpiece are adjusted between the three positions.
The traditional "prone-only" stock doesn't seem to be very popular outside of the US anymore. Certainly here in Britain most serious prone shooters will chose a Free Rifle.
Free rifle = 3-P rifle (thumbhole wood stock or skeleton metal stock, either with a fancy metal hook butt).
most world class shooters use one rifle for both the 60 shot prone match, and the 3x40 3-P match. Butt and cheekpiece are adjusted between the three positions.
The traditional "prone-only" stock doesn't seem to be very popular outside of the US anymore. Certainly here in Britain most serious prone shooters will chose a Free Rifle.
You wont see any 20 lb rifles, they would be over the weight limit. The Anschutz 1913 Supermatch with wood stock is 12.5 lbs and the 1907 (light barrel version) is around 11 lbs. The 1913 is used by 9 out of 10 shooters in the US. The 1813 is essentially the same but is an earlier version and can be found used easier.
Your other choices will be a Feinwerkbau 2700 or Walther KK300. They make both of these with a light barrel option. All three brands also come in both wood and aluminum stocked versions.
If you are looking used, you will run across only 1 FWB or Walther for every 200 Anschutz in the US.
When buying new, they are all about the same price and they are all capable of winning an Olympic medal.
Your other choices will be a Feinwerkbau 2700 or Walther KK300. They make both of these with a light barrel option. All three brands also come in both wood and aluminum stocked versions.
If you are looking used, you will run across only 1 FWB or Walther for every 200 Anschutz in the US.
When buying new, they are all about the same price and they are all capable of winning an Olympic medal.
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bpscCheney
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
This weight is their shipping weight so it's what the box that it comes in weighs so they can quote you a price to ship it. And as previously stated they are can't exceed 8.5kg in weight so no 20 pound rifles.vHoff wrote:Thanks so much.
But what about weight? I was looking at some of the Anschutz rifles and they had weights >15 and even 20 lbs. That seems very heavy for offhand? Or am I just wrong.
8.5kg=18.7ish pounds
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WesternGrizzly
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:43 pm
The legal limit for a mens free rifle is 8kg(17.6 lbs). There are not many rifles out there that are even close to this.
Almost everyone who shoots both prone and 3P shoots the same rifle for both. Most (like 99%) 3P shooters also shoot the 50m prone event. There is no reason that I can think of to have a separate rifle for each event. It just becomes a logistical nightmare if you are traveling to a match and you need to take a prone gun, position gun, and probably an air rifle.
The "big three" are Walther, Anschutz, and Feinwerkbau. In the US, Anschutz is the most common. Therefore it will be easiest to find parts for and to have repaired. Outside of the US Walther and Feinwerkbau have a large chunk of the market (they are expanding in the US). Bleiker is a very good brand, and very popular outside of the US. They are very expensive.
Anschutz has two "match" actions. The 54 and the 54s. The 54 is in the 1913 and 1907 rifles. It is a round action. The 54s is in the 2013 and the 2007 rifles. The action is square. The biggest difference is how easily the barrels are to change. The 2013 is significantly easier to change barrels on. Both are good and will suit your purposes. The 20 series action is gaining popularity it seems.
Walther has the KK300. I really like this action. The barrel is glued in, but still fairly easy to change. These are very popular in the ISSF. I don't have one, so I can't say too much about them.
The FWB rifle is the 2700. Its action seems similar to the 1913. I can't say too much about it either. I don't like the stock, so I didn't get one.
Any of these rifles will suit you well, but if you are just starting, look around for a local club and see if you can be lent a rifle to learn the basics with.
Matt
Almost everyone who shoots both prone and 3P shoots the same rifle for both. Most (like 99%) 3P shooters also shoot the 50m prone event. There is no reason that I can think of to have a separate rifle for each event. It just becomes a logistical nightmare if you are traveling to a match and you need to take a prone gun, position gun, and probably an air rifle.
The "big three" are Walther, Anschutz, and Feinwerkbau. In the US, Anschutz is the most common. Therefore it will be easiest to find parts for and to have repaired. Outside of the US Walther and Feinwerkbau have a large chunk of the market (they are expanding in the US). Bleiker is a very good brand, and very popular outside of the US. They are very expensive.
Anschutz has two "match" actions. The 54 and the 54s. The 54 is in the 1913 and 1907 rifles. It is a round action. The 54s is in the 2013 and the 2007 rifles. The action is square. The biggest difference is how easily the barrels are to change. The 2013 is significantly easier to change barrels on. Both are good and will suit your purposes. The 20 series action is gaining popularity it seems.
Walther has the KK300. I really like this action. The barrel is glued in, but still fairly easy to change. These are very popular in the ISSF. I don't have one, so I can't say too much about them.
The FWB rifle is the 2700. Its action seems similar to the 1913. I can't say too much about it either. I don't like the stock, so I didn't get one.
Any of these rifles will suit you well, but if you are just starting, look around for a local club and see if you can be lent a rifle to learn the basics with.
Matt
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bpscCheney
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
A number of folks have framed this problem up pretty well but I will throw in my two cents.
From your original post it is not clear if there is any smallbore activity in your area. If there is, this is a good place to get a look at some of the hardware and also some of the other equipment AND how it is used. There are so many adjustments on a modern free rifle it can be almost impossible to know where to start without some guidance.
If you are just getting going, used is the place to be, most any of the big three target rifles new will set you back $3k+, then you are also in for mats, scope (spotting), sling, glove, jacket then as you advance pants and boots.
The top end Anschutz, FWB and Walther's have been mentioned and 'Grizzly noted the logistical nightmare of shooting more than one rifle. Now the other part of this equation is that hook butt plates have become so complex that while you have the same rifle it is now common to have multiple butt plates and carriers that can be swapped out rather than trying to reproduce all the settings for each position each time. Three positions= 3 butt assembies Depending on your setup each additional butt assembly can easily run $300+ and well beyond unless you find them used.
While the latest top end Anschutz or similar is attractive and where you will likely want to end up if you stay with the sport you do not have to start there. Unless you have a large frame Don't overlook an 1807 or even one of the entry line 1803 or 1903 Anschutz. (the xx03 are built on a lighter action and have lighter barrel than an xx07 but are certainly target rifle enough to get a person started in the sport.) They retain their value quite well so it is easy to get your money out when it is time to move up. Especially the xx07 series are light enough to not kill most people and the adjustments are simple and straight forward enough so that you won't get lost trying to figure them out.
I make a point of the rifle being light enough to not kill the shooter. While it can sound impressive to get the weight of the rifle up to 14 or 15 pounds remember you still have to manage the rifle not for a few but for 120 competition shots, plus sighters. More if you are also shooting a 60 shot prone match. A little moderation in the weight department can go a long way to lasting the entire day.
Simpler is better when just starting out, especially if you have limited access to coaching.
Cheers,
'Dude
From your original post it is not clear if there is any smallbore activity in your area. If there is, this is a good place to get a look at some of the hardware and also some of the other equipment AND how it is used. There are so many adjustments on a modern free rifle it can be almost impossible to know where to start without some guidance.
If you are just getting going, used is the place to be, most any of the big three target rifles new will set you back $3k+, then you are also in for mats, scope (spotting), sling, glove, jacket then as you advance pants and boots.
The top end Anschutz, FWB and Walther's have been mentioned and 'Grizzly noted the logistical nightmare of shooting more than one rifle. Now the other part of this equation is that hook butt plates have become so complex that while you have the same rifle it is now common to have multiple butt plates and carriers that can be swapped out rather than trying to reproduce all the settings for each position each time. Three positions= 3 butt assembies Depending on your setup each additional butt assembly can easily run $300+ and well beyond unless you find them used.
While the latest top end Anschutz or similar is attractive and where you will likely want to end up if you stay with the sport you do not have to start there. Unless you have a large frame Don't overlook an 1807 or even one of the entry line 1803 or 1903 Anschutz. (the xx03 are built on a lighter action and have lighter barrel than an xx07 but are certainly target rifle enough to get a person started in the sport.) They retain their value quite well so it is easy to get your money out when it is time to move up. Especially the xx07 series are light enough to not kill most people and the adjustments are simple and straight forward enough so that you won't get lost trying to figure them out.
I make a point of the rifle being light enough to not kill the shooter. While it can sound impressive to get the weight of the rifle up to 14 or 15 pounds remember you still have to manage the rifle not for a few but for 120 competition shots, plus sighters. More if you are also shooting a 60 shot prone match. A little moderation in the weight department can go a long way to lasting the entire day.
Simpler is better when just starting out, especially if you have limited access to coaching.
Cheers,
'Dude