I recently found out that the barrel on my 1813 super match is not in the correct position. There is a space between the chamber face and the inside, upper, left hand corner of the action (just above the left bolt lug space). I assume that the action is fine and that the barrel needs to be replaced. Ive looked into Lilja, Hart, Krieger, and McGowen barrels. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with barrels or rebarreling? If so, I would greatly appreciate the help.
Does anyone have preferences for barrel length or twist rate? What differs from a shorter twist rate rather than a longer twist rate? I mean how will it affect the bullet, besides twisting it at a higher revolution?
Please keep in mind that I need this barrel ASAP. I will be shooting at Camp Perry and need to shoot qualifing matches to be sponsered at Perry.
Rebarreling help!
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Re: Rebarreling help!
As I understand it, a longer twist - 1 in 17" for example - may not be sufficient to stabilize the bullet in cold weather although it may give slightly better performance in the wind.BAtarget wrote:Does anyone have preferences for barrel length or twist rate? What differs from a shorter twist rate rather than a longer twist rate? I mean how will it affect the bullet, besides twisting it at a higher revolution?
1 in 16" is a more common choice for a compromise between those two factors - although I believe Walther uses 1 in 16.4".
Shorter twists are usually for longer, heavier and faster fullbore bullets which require more spin to stabilize them.
Also it's worth adding Shilen barrels to your list of candidates. You're blessed with many fine barrel makers over there...
The most important thing would be to find the right gunsmith who can assess your current barrel and advise you which way to go.
-
WesternGrizzly
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:43 pm
Also add Benchmark, Schneider, and Rock Creek(I think thats the brand). Obermeyer makes a very good centerfire barrel, don't know if he makes rimfire.
From what I understand, the general findings are this:
The slower the twist, the more inharently(from a theory standpoint) accurate the barrel will be. I also understand that they show less wind drift. But in colder temps you will get keyholing.
I like the shorter 500mm barrel because of balance. You just have to use a bloop tube to extend the sight radius.
Matt
From what I understand, the general findings are this:
The slower the twist, the more inharently(from a theory standpoint) accurate the barrel will be. I also understand that they show less wind drift. But in colder temps you will get keyholing.
I like the shorter 500mm barrel because of balance. You just have to use a bloop tube to extend the sight radius.
Matt
Re: Rebarreling help!
There should be a space between the barrel and the locking lug recesses. The 1813 (and every other Match 54 action) has a rear locking bolt, so the lugs are about 4in back from the barrel face.BAtarget wrote:I recently found out that the barrel on my 1813 super match is not in the correct position. There is a space between the chamber face and the inside, upper, left hand corner of the action (just above the left bolt lug space).
Did you mean the recess for the extractor claw?
There are a few things I don't get here:
You say the barrel in not in the correct position but you have not mentioned that the rifle has lost it's accuracy. From what you are saying the barrel has not rotated, just seems it may be set forward from the machined face in the action.
Have you checked the headspace? This the distance from the rear face of the barrel to the chambering face of the bolt. Going by memory on a 22 it should be between 0.042" to 0.046" and for bolt action target rifles is usually more on the 0.042" side of the range. There are special gauges you can place into the chamber and close the bolt to measure this value.
Bottom line, if you want a reason to get a new barrel, then just go for it, it will make you feel better.
If you just think you have a problem and that changing the barrel is the only way to fix it then make sure you have the problem first. To do that, check the headspace and also check how the gun is grouping. Also, if the headspace is bad you can have the existing barrel pulled, cut some off the back, remachine and reinstall, that can save some dollars if that is important. (That would be a fair amount of effort spent on a factory Anschutz barrel but that is another discussion.) If the headspace is ok and after some work with bedding torque and different good ammos you can't get the rifle to shoot then go ahead get yourself that barrel.
Good Luck,
'Dude
You say the barrel in not in the correct position but you have not mentioned that the rifle has lost it's accuracy. From what you are saying the barrel has not rotated, just seems it may be set forward from the machined face in the action.
Have you checked the headspace? This the distance from the rear face of the barrel to the chambering face of the bolt. Going by memory on a 22 it should be between 0.042" to 0.046" and for bolt action target rifles is usually more on the 0.042" side of the range. There are special gauges you can place into the chamber and close the bolt to measure this value.
Bottom line, if you want a reason to get a new barrel, then just go for it, it will make you feel better.
If you just think you have a problem and that changing the barrel is the only way to fix it then make sure you have the problem first. To do that, check the headspace and also check how the gun is grouping. Also, if the headspace is bad you can have the existing barrel pulled, cut some off the back, remachine and reinstall, that can save some dollars if that is important. (That would be a fair amount of effort spent on a factory Anschutz barrel but that is another discussion.) If the headspace is ok and after some work with bedding torque and different good ammos you can't get the rifle to shoot then go ahead get yourself that barrel.
Good Luck,
'Dude
Im sorry for the confusion. I gave you guys an inaccurate description. There is a space/void that appears just above the chamber face (where the chamber face intersects with the upper, inside lip of the action itself). Just to clarify, the chamber face is the portion of metal above the chamber itself( the chamber being where the bullet is inserted). I havent checked the headspace but i noticed that when i put a round in the chamber, close the bolt, and, without firing, open the bolt and eject the round, a scratch appears on the rim of the cartridge and in some cases, that scratch travels to the base of the shaft of the cartridge, just past the rim. And to charify moreover, the scratch travels upward toward the bullet, not downward to the base where the brand stamp is located (E for Eley). I cleaned my rifle and bolt extensively, and the scratch still appears. Please help
OK, I see now. It sounds as if the barrel face (what you call the chamber face) has been dented by the firing pin. Do you dry fire often? Without a cartridge to cushion the pin, t's not unkown for the firing pin to ding the barrel causing a dent. I think there is a too called a chamber iron that can be used to return the displaced metal.
Before you replace the barrel it might be worth taking the rifle to a competent gunsmith for their opinion.
Tim
Before you replace the barrel it might be worth taking the rifle to a competent gunsmith for their opinion.
Tim
Yep. It definitely sounds like the breech face might have been peened by dry firing without a fired cartridge or snap cap in place. This can hurt accuracy slightly by pushing the rear of the cartridge out of alignment slightly so the bullet isn't perfectly parallel to the bore when fired, but Anschutz match rifle chambers are usually tight enough that this isn't a big worry. It usually results in accuracy loss from bullet marring and extraction issues as the first visible symptoms. This is a very simple matter for a competent gunsmith, or nearly anyone who is careful, to fix. As has been mentioned, if it's really bad, it's also not all that complicated to have a gunsmith pull the barrel, remove a bit of material from it, recut the chamber and shoulder of the barrel, and reinstall the barrel. This procedure, or a new barrel, seems a bit extreme unless you are having accuracy issues that can't be fixed by just fixing the peening.
Specifically, here is the tool that is used to fix the breech peening.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/777754 ... 22-rimfire
Here's a video showing how easy it is to use. You really have to overdo it to have a chance of damaging anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqUZwIf0J2k
You might also want to check for excessive firing pin protrusion from the bolt face. Most of the match rifles that I've seen don't have firing pins that protrude far enough from the bolt face to actually impact the breech if a cartridge case isn't present, especially Anschutz match rifles. I know many competitors who dryfire often with the chamber empty that don't see this kind of damage. Of course, I know lots who the very thought of doing that by accident even once strikes fear of damage into, so it's up to each person. It's also possible that someone with great intentions has used a fired case for dryfire practice, but kept using the same case at the same spot by just lifting the bolt handle to cock the bolt without removing and replacing the fired cartridge. Once the rim is completely compressed by the firing pin hitting it a few times, the firing pin is effectively striking the breech face because there's no more cushioning being provided by the cartridge ridge and the two layers of brass are giving the pin just enough reach to do damage to the breech face.
I've been meaning to pick up one of these to fix an issue with my Marlin 57 that I use for smallbore cowboy lever action silhouette matches. That gun is very far from an Anschutz match rifle, but has the same problem from a previous owner. Thanks for the reminder. If you happen to be anywhere near western Washington, I'd be happy to fix it for you once it gets here. :)
Specifically, here is the tool that is used to fix the breech peening.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/777754 ... 22-rimfire
Here's a video showing how easy it is to use. You really have to overdo it to have a chance of damaging anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqUZwIf0J2k
You might also want to check for excessive firing pin protrusion from the bolt face. Most of the match rifles that I've seen don't have firing pins that protrude far enough from the bolt face to actually impact the breech if a cartridge case isn't present, especially Anschutz match rifles. I know many competitors who dryfire often with the chamber empty that don't see this kind of damage. Of course, I know lots who the very thought of doing that by accident even once strikes fear of damage into, so it's up to each person. It's also possible that someone with great intentions has used a fired case for dryfire practice, but kept using the same case at the same spot by just lifting the bolt handle to cock the bolt without removing and replacing the fired cartridge. Once the rim is completely compressed by the firing pin hitting it a few times, the firing pin is effectively striking the breech face because there's no more cushioning being provided by the cartridge ridge and the two layers of brass are giving the pin just enough reach to do damage to the breech face.
I've been meaning to pick up one of these to fix an issue with my Marlin 57 that I use for smallbore cowboy lever action silhouette matches. That gun is very far from an Anschutz match rifle, but has the same problem from a previous owner. Thanks for the reminder. If you happen to be anywhere near western Washington, I'd be happy to fix it for you once it gets here. :)
I recently got a SCATT training system and I have been dry firing a bit, but not much at all.
I just got an email from Eric Uptagrafft about his barrels. He says one has a Krieger and the other has a Shilen. But Matt Emmons shoots with a Lilja barrel. Though it seems that a lot of benchrest shooters use Krieger barrels as well, so I feel comfortable with either a lilja or krieger barrel. Any suggestions, tips, or comments on any barrel manufacturer?
I just got an email from Eric Uptagrafft about his barrels. He says one has a Krieger and the other has a Shilen. But Matt Emmons shoots with a Lilja barrel. Though it seems that a lot of benchrest shooters use Krieger barrels as well, so I feel comfortable with either a lilja or krieger barrel. Any suggestions, tips, or comments on any barrel manufacturer?